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So; Ultimate Campaign Downtime Spell Research Rules (and the ones in the GM's Guide).
Part of their purpose is that I can research spells from other lists, correct? If I want my Cleric to know Blood Money, or my Wizard to Know Resurrection, for whatever reason, this system should cover it, yes? Just add it to the list in the same spell level and move on?
Why does it not seem like people use the spell research rules (Downtime variant or default) for their character build if they want an off-list spell, and instead you see all sorts of other methods instead, such as rings of spell knowledge?
Also, are there any interesting things regarding the spell research rules that are not immediately obvious which I may not know?
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You are correct that researching off-list spells would typically be covered by the spell research rules. However, the specifics of spell research are completely under the purview of the GM. Since that means its viability varies from table to table, it tends to be ignored when making general-use builds.
For example, if you want your wizard to know resurrection, spell research would likely be the way to do it, but your GM would be the arbiter of what spell level it would be for a wizard, what modifications may or may not be made to the wizard version of the spell, or whether it is even possible for a wizard to research it successfully at all. "Just add it to the list in the same spell level and move on" is one way to arbitrate it, but it's unlikely to be followed blindly by most GMs, including myself.
Not to mention, by those rules in order to research Resurrection you would need 7 weeks, at least.
Also, you know a GM who would allow Blood Money at all?
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@blahpers - from what I understood, the GM would be making those rulings if I make up a spell, but if I take a spell from a different source, I literally just add it to my list, and doing otherwise would be a houserule. Did I miss something there?
@RumpinRufus - True, it would take a while. Some campaigns allow for downtime, and if they don't, then nobody is going to be using those crafting feats either (I would want to know this before I start building my character, as it could result in very different builds/choices of class - but I don't play a character unless I've plotted my options up to level 15).
As for blood money, I've only tried to make use of it just once; nothing super exploity, but sure, it was allowed. I added it to a synthesist summoner so I could Transmogrify without it costing me 1000 gold each time. (I had a handful of pre-prepared eidolons, and occasionally I would switch them out.)
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Maybe you should start with the chapter about spell research in the Ultimate magic book:
Spell research
The maximum damage depends on the level of the spell and whether the spell is arcane or divine. This is because arcane magic is deliberately designed to be better at dealing damage to balance the fact that divine magic is better at healing.
Generally when you change a spell from an "appropriate" spell list (sonic spells for bard, healing spells for divine casters, etc.) to an "inappropriate" spell list (adding the above spells to the wizard list) the spell level increase by 1-2 levels (if it is allowed at all).
Example, the witch, a arcane spellcasting class that has a good access to healing magic get raise dead and resurrection 1 level later.
giving a wizard resurrection as a level 7 spell would break that paradigm. If allowed it should be at least a level 9 spell.
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Ah. I see.
Okay.
This clears up my question of why you don't see builds including off-list spells granted via research. The research rules aren't specific enough to be able to just apply them formulaically, and are heavily subject to GM whim.
When I was looking at it it looked like that section you're referring to was just for making new spells, and that off-list spells was basically a straightforward rule to apply and then you're done.
No Darkholme, just because a spell exists on another class spell list doesn't mean you can just directly import it over.
I would use Wish and Limited Wish as a Guideline to determine what is possible.
Limited Wish allows you to cast a 7th level spell and:
Duplicate any sorcerer/wizard spell of 6th level or lower, provided the spell does not belong to one of your opposition schools.
• Duplicate any non-sorcerer/wizard spell of 5th level or lower, provided the spell does not belong to one of your opposition schools.
• Duplicate any sorcerer/wizard spell of 5th level or lower, even if it belongs to one of your opposition schools.
• Duplicate any non-sorcerer/wizard spell of 4th level or lower, even if it belongs to one of your opposition schools.
So, if conjuration was not one of your opposition schools I would tell you that I would allow you to learn Raise Dead, which is a 5th level cleric spell, as a 6th level spell with a material component cost of 6,500 gold. It shouldn't be better than or as good as the original class having the spell. If conjuration was an opposed school I'd allow it as 7th level spell. But honestly, I'd only allow this if you didn't have another class capable of casting such spells in the group.
But since this is something that could be accomplished with Limited Wish it seems reasonable that if you are specializing the spell the spell slot cost should go down so downgrading it from 7 to 6 and making it cost the same as casting Raise Dead using Limited Wish seems fair to me.
But everything I have written there is purview of a GM, and there are no solid rules for it. But you do not get the automatic permission to import spells from other lists at the same level.
Back in 2nd Ed, Dragon Magazine #242 had an article called "Laws of Spell Design".
My recollection is that crossing the Arcane/Divine line adds one level to the spell.
/cevah
I always thought spell research was to create entirely new spells. However, I am excited about the idea that research could allow one to add an existing spell from a different list. After reading this thread I consulted the books and it still isn't clear to me.
Is there any official word on whether one may add a spell from a different list?
If so, can any spell caster do this, provided that he or she follows the guidelines? For example, does it matter if we're talking arcane or divine? Prepared versus spontaneous caster? Full spell-casting class versus a six or four level casting class?
Could I have an Inquisitor who learns Produce Flame or Burning Hands? A Paladin who learns Magic Missile or Entangle? A Bard who learns Lightning Bolt? A Cleric who learns Web?
If this is possible then this solves many of the "problems" I have in trying to figure out how to build the type of character I've been dying to play for years.
I really like the idea of an Inquisitor who adds just two or three minor Evocation/Conjuration spells to his list. . .
I always thought spell research was to create entirely new spells.
This. This is what it's for. To have a mechanic behind creating home brew spells.
I don't see why you couldn't use it for some of the other things described in this thread though.
I always thought spell research was to create entirely new spells. However, I am excited about the idea that research could allow one to add an existing spell from a different list. After reading this thread I consulted the books and it still isn't clear to me.
Is there any official word on whether one may add a spell from a different list?
If so, can any spell caster do this, provided that he or she follows the guidelines? For example, does it matter if we're talking arcane or divine? Prepared versus spontaneous caster? Full spell-casting class versus a six or four level casting class?
Could I have an Inquisitor who learns Produce Flame or Burning Hands? A Paladin who learns Magic Missile or Entangle? A Bard who learns Lightning Bolt? A Cleric who learns Web?
If this is possible then this solves many of the "problems" I have in trying to figure out how to build the type of character I've been dying to play for years.
I really like the idea of an Inquisitor who adds just two or three minor Evocation/Conjuration spells to his list. . .
It's not a given. Adding a spell from another class' spell list is totally at the discretion of a GM. In general, the answer should be no with only very limited exceptions. Otherwise what is the point of a class spell list?