So I'm about to run the Mummy's Mask AP for our group and one of our guys is going to play a Barbarian. As I read the rules for Rage and consider how to GM the rules and help with character creation, I am starting to wonder about the restriction to using "Dex-based skills or any ability that requires patience and concentration". Since Feats, by my understanding, are abilities that the character selects and represents training, innate talen, skill etc (While still remaining an "ability"), who do must people rule or adjudicate Dex-based Feats while the character is Raging?
For instance Dodge, Two-Weapon Fighting and Two-Weapon Defence are all Dex-based Feats, how do most people adjudicate them when the Barbarian Rages?
I'm tempted to say that Dodge doesn't apply since it is a Dex-based ability that increases AC, and we know that Raging affects AC negatively however Two-Weapon fighting and two-weapon D are both combat abilities that seem like they shouldn't be an issue but possibly contradict how I feel about Dodge.
Any help or advice?
Thanks in advance.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
No. No. No, jesus no.
Dex based SKILLS. SKIIIIILLLLS. Look at the Skills section.
Acrobatics? No. Disable Device? Nope. Fly? Can't use it.
Not "Everything Dex based".
"I'm sorry I got so angry I forgot how to use my left hand" is not how it works.
Then "any ability that requires patience or concentration" which would be spells, spell-like abilities, and other things that require Concentration.
Patience is ambiguous, but anything he can do within a single round should be fine.
I'm tired of the weekly "How can I purposefully misread this sentence to f$#~ over my Barbarian" threads, can you tell?
No. No. No, jesus no.
Dex based SKILLS. SKIIIIILLLLS. Look at the Skills section.
Acrobatics? No. Disable Device? Nope. Fly? Can't use it.
Not "Everything Dex based".
"I'm sorry I got so angry I forgot how to use my left hand" is not how it works.
Then "any ability that requires patience or concentration" which would be spells, spell-like abilities, and other things that require Concentration.
Patience is ambiguous, but anything he can do within a single round should be fine.
I'm tired of the weekly "How can I purposefully misread this sentence to f@$~ over my Barbarian" threads, can you tell?
Yep, your frustration is coming through loud and clear. However, I did not misread any part of the text, in my opinion the text reads as a bit ambiguous and as a GM some thought is always required to make sure it is balanced when characters are made.
The Dex skills is clear, the "abilities that require patience and concentration" are not, especially since we KNOW that Barbarians take a -2 to AC for the duration of their Rage because of the fury and passion that they feel while raging.
Appreciate your feedback, hoping to get some more insight into the issue as well.
Firstly, I feel it needs saying - never assume the text is balanced. You'd be wrong. Personal calls should ride over. :P
In any case, this is a rules forum, sticking to what is written;
Are those feats (or any other dex-based feats) skills? No. Feats =! Skills
Do any of those feats explicitly require concentration (as spells do):
To cast a spell, you must be able to speak (if the spell has a verbal component), gesture (if it has a somatic component), and manipulate the material components or focus (if any). Additionally, you must concentrate to cast a spell.
To read the feats, there is an absence of calling out needs to concentrate. Implying that this is not part of it.
For one thing to look to your interpretation though, I have to say your definitions do not match those of the system. Concentration is not, in a rules context, mere focus - but an explicit activity that bares checks for issues performing any concentration related task.Thus, were we to use that interpretation - every time a feat is invoked in combat, it would demand a concentration check of some form. With this not called out, or defined - we cannot and should not.
The Dex skills is clear, the "abilities that require patience and concentration" are not, especially since we KNOW that Barbarians take a -2 to AC for the duration of their Rage because of the fury and passion that they feel while raging.
Whilst that is a valid interpretation, I have to point out you are conflating rules and flavour here. It is the game rules, the hard mechanics, that rage causes a -2 to AC. It is flavour that it's due to a "fury and passion". I might argue it's due to over-devotion to offence as opposed to any passion. In lieu of this point, however, by what argument does being better at dodging due to your training/experience (note it is no action to activate it) require patience (a lack thereof surely?) or concentration more than usual for trying to hit an enemy?
Dex based SKILLS. SKIIIIILLLLS. Look at the Skills section.
Acrobatics? No. Disable Device? Nope. Fly? Can't use it.
Since y'all are trying to steer OP in the right direction, I think it's important to remember, and emphasis mine:
While in rage, a barbarian cannot use any Charisma-, Dexterity-, or Intelligence-based skills (except Acrobatics, Fly, Intimidate, and Ride) or any ability that requires patience or concentration.
So, Acrobatics? Yes. Disable Device? Nope. Fly? Can use it.
The text is utterly unambiguous and perfectly clear. It says SKILLS, so the only thing it affects are SKILLS.
Dex based, int based, and cha based skills cannot be used with the exceptions listed in the power. Outside of that things that require concentration cannot be performed. That is ambiguous, but generally speaking feats do not fall under this description.
Dodge works just fine, two weapon fighting works just fine.
If you don't have a pretty good idea of how this works why don't you come up with a list of things you're unsure of and we can let you know about the ones you're concerned about.
Dex based SKILLS. SKIIIIILLLLS. Look at the Skills section.
Acrobatics? No. Disable Device? Nope. Fly? Can't use it.
Since y'all are trying to steer OP in the right direction, I think it's important to remember, and emphasis mine:
While in rage, a barbarian cannot use any Charisma-, Dexterity-, or Intelligence-based skills (except Acrobatics, Fly, Intimidate, and Ride) or any ability that requires patience or concentration.So, Acrobatics? Yes. Disable Device? Nope. Fly? Can use it.
Riiiight, my bad. I actually never saw Fly was on there, but completely derped on Acrobatics.