Help with creating an amazing... Wizard?


Advice


My group is rolling for stats for a game we're playing in about a month. The idea was to create "diversity". I was a little apprehensive, until I rolled, before everyone's eyes, a 14, 15, 16, 16, 16, and 17. I was thinking about playing a wizard, because I usually do, but is there something else that would better meet this character's potential? I'd like to play a goblin, because they're hard to hit and fast, but I am open to any suggestions.

Grand Lodge

Wizard means you are basically a god at later levels.

If you are already the highest statted PC, I would consider not completely overshadowing everyone.

What races are allowed?


Try a Multi Ability Dependent(Mad)class, such as a melee bard, a battle oracle, a shapeshifter druid, etc.

With stats like that, you can afford a good primary casting stat AND good combat viability. Don't go for a bad BAB class, you would waste all the fun of this versatility. If you like being the wizard, try a magus, they can cast most good wizard evocation spells AND are amazing fighting machine. Or try a Bard, or even a combat oriented Summoner if you are more in the God mage thing. Illusion, buff and enchantment for the bard, conjuration and buff for the summoner. You will be almost as good at casting, but much more funny at low level and able to stand a melee fight.

Grand Lodge

Actually, if you are the highest statted PC, then consider a support role.

Bard, Cleric, Skald, or Oracle, are good choices.


We can be any of the races in the Core or ARG, plus some from the bestiaries, like Gnolls. The only class we can't use is Master Summoner, with which I whole-heartedly agree.

I normally buff allies and debuff enemies with my wizards. I always have more fun playing a background character who, when put in a corner, starts murdering hard.

Is Magus a good class? I understood they were a little restrictive.

Grand Lodge

Magus is a bit of a glass cannon.

Actually, I would consider a Lizardfolk Fated Champion Skald.

You would be a great buffer, skill monkey, and just murder-crazy when cornered.

In fact, the idea of the Lizardfolk, raising his spear into the air, singing the epic battle songs to inspire his allies into a murderous fury, just sounds awesome.


Goblin alchemist would be fun with that line up. They even have their own archetype, though being reliant on fire can be really awful.

The feral gnasher(Barbarian Archetype) can be pretty nasty. I've used it as an NPC a few times and its pretty gnarly. If your gm provides a dex for damage feat for natural attacks or Agile Amulet of mighty fist you'll want that.

Grand Lodge

I prefer Hobgoblin, to Goblin, for many builds.

Goblin Master of Many Styles, always interested me though.


Ghurg Rat-Head wrote:
My group is rolling for stats for a game we're playing in about a month. The idea was to create "diversity". I was a little apprehensive, until I rolled, before everyone's eyes, a 14, 15, 16, 16, 16, and 17. I was thinking about playing a wizard, because I usually do, but is there something else that would better meet this character's potential? I'd like to play a goblin, because they're hard to hit and fast, but I am open to any suggestions.

If you like wizards...I have a little bit of an idea for you. Very unorthodox but you have the stats for it. No, this is by FAR not optimum, but it will be fun.

The Great Green Gurth

Goblin (infernal dragon spawn goblin? you'll see)
Str 16-2 (put all other increases here)
Dex 14+4
Con 16
Int 15
Wis 16
Cha 17-2(put your level 4 increase here)

Barbarian 4 -> Sorceror (Draconic) 1 -> Dragon Disciple 10 -> Eldritch Knight

Traits: Pick two, and make sure you speak draconic at the start. If you can snag a level-based SLA, take Arcane Strike at level 7.

Level 1: Rage, Fast Movement, a longsword, and Power Attack.
-You're a smart, well-read goblin barbarian who thinks he has magical powers. Pretend you do, put ranks in UMD to "prove it."
Level 2: Rage Power, Moment of Clarity so you can use UMD to "cast" spells during rage. Put some ranks in Knowledge (Arcana) so you can talk about your magic.
Level 3: Skill Focus(Knowledge: Arcana) now you can out-talk the wizard about spells and magical thingies.
Level 4: Rage Power, Quick Reflexes. Because goblins are really, really fast...and I seldom need over 2 AoOs in a round and you can skip Combat Reflexes--build is feat-starved.
Level 5: Sorceror 1, Draconic (pick a chromatic color you like), Eldritch Heritage (Abyssal).
Level 6: DD1 starts the fun, natural armor +1.
Level 7: +2 strength, Cleave (or arcane strike), Toughness (bonus)
Level 8:
Level 9: +2 strength,
Level 10: Improved Initiative (bonus)
Level 11: +2 constitution, Improved Eldritch Heritage (strength of the pit) +2 Strength*

*As written it's actually +4 strength, see spoiler.

ability verbage:

Blood of Dragons wrote:
A dragon disciple adds his level to his sorcerer levels when determining the powers gained from his bloodline.
Improved Eldritch Heritage wrote:
You gain either the 3rd-level or the 9th-level power (your choice) of the bloodline you selected with the Eldritch Heritage feat. For purposes of using that power, treat your sorcerer level as equal to your character level – 2, even if you have levels in sorcerer."

So, as written, your sorceror level is 9 for the power of the bloodline (feat) plus DD 6 (blood of dragons bonus to powers from the bloodline) = 15 for +4 strength, which should increase to 17 at next level for +6 strength.

Level 12: DD7 provides dragon form
Level 13: +2 intelligence, Quicken Spell (bonus), Great Cleave (or cleave if you took arcane strike earlier), Your natural armor bonus hits +5 (3 from DD, 2 from draconic bloodline power)
Level 14: Now you're a flying abyssal draconic goblin with +14 strength while raging...OUCH! Those sorceror spells you actually learned? Use them for self melee support.

Your 36 Str with gear means your melee attacks should have +20(plus enchantment) to hit while power attacking two-handed and deal 1d8+28(plus enchantment) damage per hit. Nothing to sneeze at when you can haste yourself.

Level 15: Still Spell now that you have the caster level for it.
Roll into Eldritch Knight:

Level 20: BAB: +16 Caster Level 12.

Edit: Closed the hanging quote.


Fun story, cool build.

Shame the Eldritch heritage doesn't work the way you think. I see the logic you are using, but it rests on a very dubious interpretation.

You treat your sorcerer level as character level - 2 ALWAYS.

Yes, it says you can add your DD levels to sorcerer levels. And technically the EH feat only excludes sorcerer levels

Blood of Dragons should have said DD levels count as sorcerer levels for the purpose of determining your bloodline powers or something like that.

It doesn't, but the intent of the EH feat is obviously that your sorcerer level is CL-2. Even if you have levels in sorcerer or effects that add to your sorcerer level.

Doubt your reading would fly at any table.

Nevertheless, that would just postpone your strength gains and still makes this an awesome build.


Ghurg Rat-Head wrote:
My group is rolling for stats for a game we're playing in about a month. The idea was to create "diversity". I was a little apprehensive, until I rolled, before everyone's eyes, a 14, 15, 16, 16, 16, and 17. I was thinking about playing a wizard, because I usually do, but is there something else that would better meet this character's potential? I'd like to play a goblin, because they're hard to hit and fast, but I am open to any suggestions.

Why do we never get any posts where people naturally rolled poorly, I wonder? That's why we never roll - the exceptional rolls always create unbalanced characters while the poor rolls always seem to get discarded in favor of 'new concepts'...

I'd consider playing a Sorcerer, perhaps Draconic or Orcish bloodline, maybe re-flavored to fit your concept. It'd make for a really versatile gish. Maybe a straight Sorcerer to Dragon Disciple?

Another great option would be to build a Summoner who fights alongside (or mounted upon) his Eidolon. Of course, that can be a very, very powerful character levels 1-20 and your group might indeed feel a bit over-shadowed.


Rambear wrote:

Fun story, cool build.

Shame the Eldritch heritage doesn't work the way you think. I see the logic you are using, but it rests on a very dubious interpretation.

You treat your sorcerer level as character level - 2 ALWAYS.

It doesn't, but the intent of the EH feat is obviously that your sorcerer level is CL-2. Even if you have levels in sorcerer or effects that add to your sorcerer level.

One minor tweak to what you said - when/if the character gains Greater Eldritch Heritage, his sorcerer level then equals his character level without the modifier. Otherwise, you're absolutely correct.


Rambear wrote:

Fun story, cool build.

Shame the Eldritch heritage doesn't work the way you think. I see the logic you are using, but it rests on a very dubious interpretation.

The problem is, as written, it works exactly the way I laid it out. Sorceror level = character level minus 2, from feat check. DD adds to sorceror level for determining the effects of bloodline powers means that your level for determining your bloodline powers is: character level minus two plus dragon disciple. A PFS GM must follows rules as written.

Totally isn't intended to do so, and I personally house rule that it adds up to a maximum of your character level. Of course, as written, Dragon Disciple doesn't stack with bloodrager levels nor require a bloodrager to even have the draconic bloodline, which is a major oversight in the hybrid class explanations in the ACG.

I finally figured out how to get a level 20+ sorceror and bloodrager bloodline:

Bloodrager 1, Sorceror 1, Arcanist 18 (Bloodline development exploit) with a cloak of arcane heritage. Which could be a totally cool use for the goblin if they're both Abyssal. +6 inherent to strength, +10 morale to strength while bloodraging...mmm...wizard EATS you.


Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber
Rambear wrote:

Fun story, cool build.

Shame the Eldritch heritage doesn't work the way you think. I see the logic you are using, but it rests on a very dubious interpretation.

You treat your sorcerer level as character level - 2 ALWAYS.

Yes, it says you can add your DD levels to sorcerer levels. And technically the EH feat only excludes sorcerer levels

Blood of Dragons should have said DD levels count as sorcerer levels for the purpose of determining your bloodline powers or something like that.

It doesn't, but the intent of the EH feat is obviously that your sorcerer level is CL-2. Even if you have levels in sorcerer or effects that add to your sorcerer level.

Doubt your reading would fly at any table.

Nevertheless, that would just postpone your strength gains and still makes this an awesome build.

i would have to agree, you count your sorcerer levels for the purpose of determining the effect(or how effective) that the powers have, not what you have unlocked, and thus doesn't stack with DD.


Bandw2 wrote:
Rambear wrote:

Fun story, cool build.

Shame the Eldritch heritage doesn't work the way you think. I see the logic you are using, but it rests on a very dubious interpretation.

You treat your sorcerer level as character level - 2 ALWAYS.

Yes, it says you can add your DD levels to sorcerer levels. And technically the EH feat only excludes sorcerer levels

Blood of Dragons should have said DD levels count as sorcerer levels for the purpose of determining your bloodline powers or something like that.

It doesn't, but the intent of the EH feat is obviously that your sorcerer level is CL-2. Even if you have levels in sorcerer or effects that add to your sorcerer level.

Doubt your reading would fly at any table.

Nevertheless, that would just postpone your strength gains and still makes this an awesome build.

i would have to agree, you count your sorcerer levels for the purpose of determining the effect(or how effective) that the powers have, not what you have unlocked, and thus doesn't stack with DD.

Correct.


Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber
Arksangiel wrote:
Rambear wrote:

Fun story, cool build.

Shame the Eldritch heritage doesn't work the way you think. I see the logic you are using, but it rests on a very dubious interpretation.

The problem is, as written, it works exactly the way I laid it out. Sorceror level = character level minus 2, from feat check. DD adds to sorceror level for determining the effects of bloodline powers means that your level for determining your bloodline powers is: character level minus two plus dragon disciple. A PFS GM must follows rules as written.

Totally isn't intended to do so, and I personally house rule that it adds up to a maximum of your character level. Of course, as written, Dragon Disciple doesn't stack with bloodrager levels nor require a bloodrager to even have the draconic bloodline, which is a major oversight in the hybrid class explanations in the ACG.

I finally figured out how to get a level 20+ sorceror and bloodrager bloodline:

Bloodrager 1, Sorceror 1, Arcanist 18 (Bloodline development exploit) with a cloak of arcane heritage. Which could be a totally cool use for the goblin if they're both Abyssal. +6 inherent to strength, +10 morale to strength while bloodraging...mmm...wizard EATS you.

Quote:
A dragon disciple adds his level to his sorcerer levels when determining the powers gained from his bloodline.
Quote:

Improved Eldritch Heritage wrote:

You gain either the 3rd-level or the 9th-level power (your choice) of the bloodline you selected with the Eldritch Heritage feat. For purposes of using that power, treat your sorcerer level as equal to your character level – 2, even if you have levels in sorcerer."

they don't stack


Bandw2 wrote:
Arksangiel wrote:
Rambear wrote:

Fun story, cool build.

Shame the Eldritch heritage doesn't work the way you think. I see the logic you are using, but it rests on a very dubious interpretation.

The problem is, as written, it works exactly the way I laid it out. Sorceror level = character level minus 2, from feat check. DD adds to sorceror level for determining the effects of bloodline powers means that your level for determining your bloodline powers is: character level minus two plus dragon disciple. A PFS GM must follows rules as written.

Totally isn't intended to do so, and I personally house rule that it adds up to a maximum of your character level. Of course, as written, Dragon Disciple doesn't stack with bloodrager levels nor require a bloodrager to even have the draconic bloodline, which is a major oversight in the hybrid class explanations in the ACG.

I finally figured out how to get a level 20+ sorceror and bloodrager bloodline:

Bloodrager 1, Sorceror 1, Arcanist 18 (Bloodline development exploit) with a cloak of arcane heritage. Which could be a totally cool use for the goblin if they're both Abyssal. +6 inherent to strength, +10 morale to strength while bloodraging...mmm...wizard EATS you.

Quote:
A dragon disciple adds his level to his sorcerer levels when determining the powers gained from his bloodline.
Quote:

Improved Eldritch Heritage wrote:

You gain either the 3rd-level or the 9th-level power (your choice) of the bloodline you selected with the Eldritch Heritage feat. For purposes of using that power, treat your sorcerer level as equal to your character level – 2, even if you have levels in sorcerer."

they don't stack

And now I agree!

Grand Lodge

I really like 1 full bab martial/ 1 scry wizard/ 10 eldritch knight/ finish wizard.
Your at -2 caster level so magical knack and be full caster level. You still see 9th level spells.

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