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One of my players was asking some questions about this prestige class and pointed something out.
Aligned Class (Ex): Evangelists come from many different backgrounds, and they show an unusual range of diversity. At 2nd level, the evangelist must choose a class she belonged to before adding the prestige class to be her aligned class. She gains all the class features for this class, essentially adding every evangelist level beyond 1st to her aligned class to determine what class features she gains. She still retains the Hit Dice, base attack bonus, saving throw bonuses, and skill ranks of the prestige class, but gains all other class features of her aligned class as well as those of the evangelist prestige class.
No where does it state you add your Evangelist level to the class features you gain for determining their power. The example he pointed out for him personally was:
From Rakshasa Bloodline:
Bloodline Arcana: Add half your sorcerer level to the Spellcraft DC for others to identify spells you cast. If their checks fail by 5 or more, they mistakenly believe you are casting an entirely different spell (selected by you when you begin casting).
Then he asked "This is a reference to sorcerer level, but it effects the relative strength of the feature, not whether or not it will be gained. Since Evangelist only mentions summing levels for gaining new features, this then means that for a Sorc5/Evan10, half of one's sorcerer level would be 2, and not 7?"
I was just wondering if this has been brought up before.
I don't think so. For a Sorc 5 / Evangelist 10, you'd have the class features of a Sorc 14, which would mean (in your example) the Rakshasa Bloodline Arcana would add 7 to the Spellcraft DC, as that's the class feature a Sorc 14 would get.
I can see where the other reading comes from, but it's not required by the text, and would lead to a lot of complicated bookkeeping, rules-lawyering about what increases count as "gaining a class feature" and what doesn't, and so on. And would probably make a number of classes completely useless as Evangelists.
As it is, Evangelist trades 1 level of a class for a bunch of skill stuff, 10 levels of d8 HD and 3/4 Bab (a negative for anyone other than a 1/2 BaB class, because of the way 3/4 BaB works with multiclassing), 2 AC, earlier Deific Obedience benefits, and an earlier but weaker capstone (Spiritual Form instead of the standard 20 capstone). While instituting mechanical and role-playing restrictions that can completely cripple the character. It's a strong prestige class but it's not as powerful as it sounds at first, as it simply doesn't add that much onto the base chassis.
I looked at this PRC when people started talking about it, and I really coulnd't see myself trading a class level in my chosen class for it. I suppose there might be some corner case where the powers granted by Deific Obedience compliment a specific build but Overall I have a hard time seeing this as worth it.
So I personally wouldn't try to limit the effectiveness of the class.
It's great for Oracles.
It's great for Oracles.
I don't know... being behind a level in spellcasting hurts especially for oracles and sorcerers. If your orcale takes this class at level 6 you don't get 3rd level spells until 7th level.
Peet
It's great for Oracles.I don't know... being behind a level in spellcasting hurts especially for oracles and sorcerers. If your orcale takes this class at level 6 you don't get 3rd level spells until 7th level.
Peet
It hurts, but no more than any other PrC, and less than quite a few.
I guess "great" is hyperbole, but it ain't bad.
It's nice with flurry and 3/4 bab classes.
Reflex save is pretty weak as your strong save, so thats usually a loss.
The obedience/boons range from meh to OMG THIS IS SO EPIC! Erastil especially, I'm looking at you! Skills are nice, dodge bonuses are nice. Its really good if your willing to sacrifice a little power to be a lot more versatile in your skills and abilities.
Probably not worth it for most non martial full casters though.
Most campaigns will never reach level 20 to obtain captsones so that is largely irrelevant.
It's a good choice for 3/4 BAB classes (which wont lose BAB) progression as they can get 9/10 of their class abilities and get some decent potential gain for deific obedience.
It's really all about the obediences. If you can find ones that are good for you character and build around that with taking levels in Evangelist then it can work out pretty well.
I agree, it's not the braindead PRC choice it was made out to be on release. It's still a great prestige class though.
My initial reaction when I saw it was that it could make a great follow-on for a wiz/EK gish. The extra BAB and HP in this case may make up for the lost caster level....
But, yeah, lost caster level. Almost never worth it.
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My Wizard in Wrath of the Righteous is going Evangelist. Honestly it's a pretty amazing choice for him. I can deal with having the spell progression of a Sorcerer for a slightly bigger hit die, some pretty awesome deific boons obtained earlier than with just the feat, better skills/skill points, a slight enhancement to the save spread, and a bump to attack bonus. (I'm following Iomadae btw.)
I'd probably still do the prestige class even if we weren't in a mythic game, it hurts to slow down progression, but getting a lot of cool buffs and abilities, while losing one level of previous class progression in most cases is pretty amazing.
It's like you're taking one level in another class for some random benefit, then going back to your previous class and gaining extra benefits for doing it.
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I like to think of the Evangelist as giving up one class level for 3/4 BAB, reflex save fixing, 6+ Int SP, 2 class skills, +2 AC, 2 languages, all skills I have with no ranks counting as having 1 rank in them and as class skills(+4 bonus), A buff usable 10 minutes/day, and faster boon progression. For 1/2 BAB classes this bumps them up to an extra attack if you're going to 20. I think you kind of have to take this for a bladebound arcanist to make you able to use your sword somewhat effectively.
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It's a trait to cover the CL, all you really loose is delayed spell access.
But, yeah, lost caster level. Almost never worth it.
The delayed spell access is the important bit. Many times have I played or DMed for delayed spell access casters (theurge, EKs, arcane tricksters) and every single time I or the person has regretted losing those spells.
Not to say it is a bad choice, just certainly not a braindead one.
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So when it says, "essentially adding every Evangelist level beyond one to her aligned class to determine what class features she gains", in the example of a Sorc 5/Evan 10, she's gaining the Class Features of a lvl 14 Sorcerer which is, among other things, a Rakshasa arcana that grants +7 to the DC of spellcasting so on and so forth.
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I take Kazaan's interpretation to mean that attaining access to all Aligned Class features through 20th level would require Evangelist 10 / Aligned Class 11.
9 of these 20 levels would use Evangelist BAB/Saves, but all other Aligned Class features would function per the combined total of Evangelist -1 plus Aligned Class levels.
Correct?
