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I'm confused.
If the Scorpion Whip is pretty much the same as a regular whip except that it has extra blades in it (and is fancier?), and is heavier, why is it a light weapon when the whip is one-handed melee?
Why not classify it as a kind of whip instead of the bizarre "you can treat it as a whip if you're proficient with whips"?
If you're proficient with a whip, is the Scorpion Whip a finesse weapon?
I'm confused.
If the Scorpion Whip is pretty much the same as a regular whip except that it has extra blades in it (and is fancier?), and is heavier, why is it a light weapon when the whip is one-handed melee?
Why not classify it as a kind of whip instead of the bizarre "you can treat it as a whip if you're proficient with whips"?
If you're proficient with a whip, is the Scorpion Whip a finesse weapon?
Being a light weapon it is a finesse weapon, all light weapons are finesse weapon...
The Scorpion whip has been nerfed because as long as it stayed the way he was there was NO reason to take a Whip since it does the same as a whip with a feat... So they nerfed it : you can make lethal damage with no problem versus armor but if you want to hit at 15 ft with it take the whip feat...
I still don't get how the thing magically gets five feet longer when you decide to use it "as a whip".
blahpers, the difference between a scorpion whip and a whip is 10feet (scorpion whip has no reach, whip has 15' reach).
blahpers, the difference between a scorpion whip and a whip is 10feet (scorpion whip has no reach, whip has 15' reach).
Ugh, I always mess that up. The Adventurer's Armory version had reach, and that's the one I usually remember. Gaining ten feet instead of five just makes it even weirder, though.
Yup! :)
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The adventurer's Armory version has disarm, trip and reach. Costs 5 gp, deals 1d4 damage and crit 20 x 2. It is classified as a one-handed weapon.
It deals lethal damage, even to creatures with armor bonuses.
It says nothing about provoking attacks of opportunity when used, like a normal whip or a lot of the whip clauses. So I would assume that it otherwise functions like one to prevent GM's in pfs from forcing rules debate resulting in another unplayable character of mine.
However, a good question here is does the ruling on abilities with different names and similar function applicable here? Or is there precedent with weapons where things are different (like weapon focus longsword not applying to shortswords- though I think a better example than that would be needed for this).
For all intents and purposes, the scorpion whip in adventurer's armory is just the whip+ and either it doesn't require any feats to be able to do what whips can't or it does require feats but the question then is- does it count as a whip so that you can take whip feats?
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Well, that works against me.
I always looked to the Scorpion Whip as a way to deal lethal, or nonlethal, and not have a penalty to either.
Well, if Whip Mastery applies, then you can choose to deal nonlethal.
Your superior expertise with this weapon does not provoke attacks of opportunity from your enemies.
Prerequisite: Weapon Focus (whip), base attack bonus +2.
Benefit: You no longer provoke attacks of opportunity when attacking with a whip. You can deal lethal damage with a whip, although you can still deal nonlethal damage when you want. Further, you can deal damage with a whip despite a creature’s armor bonus or natural armor bonus.
Normal: Attacking with a whip provokes attacks of opportunity as if you used a ranged weapon. A whip deals no damage to a creature that has an armor bonus of +1 or natural armor bonus of +3.
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Questions that come up often with it:
Does it provoke?
Can whip feats apply to it?
Does it threaten?
Does it ever change handedness, or gain reach?
Can it be enchanted as if it were a whip?
Now put those together(and possibly more), and take it PFS...
What do you do then?
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The AA Scorpion whip has a clarification from SKR. In short, it follows all the rules of a whip, except it always deals lethal damage, is not useless against armored targets, and have slightly different numbers in the table.
It's still unclear whether it shares feats with a whip, or only proficiency.
The Scorpion Whip entry in UE is garbled nonsense.
The Scorpion Whip is a one-handed slashing weapon, 15' non-threatening reach, with the disarm and trip qualities, provokes an attack of opportunity for using, and can be used with Weapon Finesse. It shares proficiency with the whip.
This much is certain.
The Scorpion Whip is not the weapon called a "Whip", though, and doesn't work with the Whip Mastery line, Fury's Snare or Serpent Lash.
I assume that based on an extension of the Warslinger ruling.
The Scorpion Whip is a one-handed slashing weapon, 15' non-threatening reach, with the disarm and trip qualities, provokes an attack of opportunity for using, and can be used with Weapon Finesse. It shares proficiency with the whip.
This much is certain.
The Scorpion Whip is not the weapon called a "Whip", though, and doesn't work with the Whip Mastery line, Fury's Snare or Serpent Lash.
I assume that based on an extension of the Warslinger ruling.
According to Ultimate Equipment which is the last book that has it a Scorpion Whip is a Slashing Exotic Light Weapon with the Performance quality, it doesn't provoke and threaten. That's it no other things except from the desctiption that state : If you are proficient with whips, you can use a scorpion whip as a whip.
Frankly I'm asking myslef if counting the two different Scorpion as two different weapons is not the best things to do...
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The Scorpion Whip is not the weapon called a "Whip", though, and doesn't work with the Whip Mastery line, Fury's Snare or Serpent Lash.
I assume that based on an extension of the Warslinger ruling.
Based on what?
If you look at Adventurer's Armory (2nd), I get the impression that the scorpion whip is to the normal whip as the composite longbow is to the normal longbow.
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This is a question that I would love to have answered with official input. What I know is that everyone wants to read this as: a light weapon that does 1d4 lethal damage, threatens its full 15' reach, has trip, and disarm qualities (and perform just for kicks), and that is a whip for all intents, proficiencies, and purposes (feats, deity's favored weapon and warpriest damage progression, for example).
I am building a whip warpriest that is doing TWF. I will be taking the Whip Mastery feats because of options as well as flavor. If I have to take WM feats to do lethal damage, I will. If I have to use a small whip in the off hand, I will. If I can use two scorpion whips instead and they are (for all intents and purposes) whips, then I would consider using one regular and one scorpion, or both scorpion.
But I would really like to have some sort of designer input saying "what you think it does is as intended" or "what you think it does is way too powerful for 5gp and an exotic weapon proficiency feat", so that plans can be made accordingly. Would the warpriest damage progression need EWP (scorpion whip) and Weapon Focus (scorpion whip) as well as those for regular whip?
This is a situation similar in complexity to the tekko-kagi, which also has a bunch of "huh?" moments.
blahpers, the difference between a scorpion whip and a whip is 10feet (scorpion whip has no reach, whip has 15' reach).... or, maybe it is an one-handed weapon, and has 15' reach, when "used as a whip"?
That's what makes it so weird. Is it the way you hold a scorpion whip that adds or removes 10 feet of reach? Makes me wonder if you hold it like a really big garrote when you aren't "using it as a whip".
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The errata to Adventurers armory does not touch on the scorpion whip, btw. so first printing is fine. So we know how an AA scorpion whip works, mostly. theres still the unresolved feat issue.
We can also clearly see that the UE version is garbled b&#$!#~! nonsense. so can we please just bury that turd and focus on the version thats worth discussing?
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We can also clearly see that the UE version is garbled b!&++&%~ nonsense. so can we please just bury that turd and focus on the version thats worth discussing?
Quell the animosity a level or two. Ultimate Equipment is (I believe) the most recently released source, so it should not be discounted. In fact, the PRD ONLY has the description and stats as it is stated in Ultimate Equipment.
The funny thing is that considering the amount of chatter this weapon has gotten, I am surprised that Paizo has not FAQ'd it yet.
I thought that if a weapon appears in a later source that is the version that is used. IE the one in Ultimate Equipment.
So no reach, trip ect.
I would be fine if I can have just these three questions answered:
1) Can I use a Scorpion Whip to deal nonlethal damage, without penalty?
2) Does attacking with a Scorpion Whip Provoke?
3) Do I threaten with a Scorpion Whip?
1) UE one : Yes but only if you are proficient with whip and if your opponent doesn't have an armor of +1 or a natural armor of +3
(so, using it as a Whip)AA one : No
2) UE One : No unless you use it as a whip
AA one : No
3) UE one : Yes unless you use it as a whip
AA one : Yes.
OOh and for tha AA Scorpion Whip fan : A AA Scorpion Whip is a Reach weapon... You can't hit someone in 5' with it...
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Unfortunately, the scorpion whip is missing the equivalence text that the composite longbow has: "For purposes of Weapon Proficiency and similar feats, a [composite longbow] is treated as if it were a [longbow]."
It would be so much easier if that text were present. It seems that the intent was present in the UC/UE version, just not the attention to pedantic detail.
2) UE One : No unless you use it as a whip
AA one : No
Would you please just....read before you post, dude.
I would be fine if I can have just these three questions answered:
1) Can I use a Scorpion Whip to deal nonlethal damage, without penalty?
2) Does attacking with a Scorpion Whip Provoke?
3) Do I threaten with a Scorpion Whip?
1) no, 2) yes, 3) no.
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We can also clearly see that the UE version is garbled b!&++&%~ nonsense. so can we please just bury that turd and focus on the version thats worth discussing?Quell the animosity a level or two. Ultimate Equipment is (I believe) the most recently released source, so it should not be discounted.
You're implying that the UE version is not garbled b+#@@@~% nonsense. So, please enlighten us to how it works, mechanically, and what those rules represent happening in the game world.
I'm currently interested in making an investigator with a whip. As half-orcs can get whip proficiency I'd love to know if I can use a scorpion whip with the full 15 foot range and do lethal damage with it. Additionally, if it still counts as a melee weapon (despite possibly provoking?). Do I need EWP for scorpion whip in addition to the whip proficiency I already have?
You're proficient with the scorpion whip, you can do lethal slashing damage at 15', and it provokes.
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Yeah, I consider the scorpion whip to be "damaged beyond use" with regards to PFS. I'd be exposing myself to significant table variation on a thing that requires a very dedicated build.
How I think it is supposed to work:
I've been thinking about a Slashing Grace whip build, although the feat chains are ridiculous. If I do I'll use the normal whip though, both to sidestep table variation, and because Whip Mastery makes the normal whip capable of lethal damage and sidesteps the AC issue. At that point it's more versatile at the cost of a bit of damage die.
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With so many versions of the same weapon it wouldnt surprise me if we get one as "Scorpion whip: Its a whip made of scorpions"
There was very nearly a spell for that. see ACG: Whip of Ants, Whip of Centipedes, Whip of Spiders
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Yeah, I consider the scorpion whip to be "damaged beyond use" with regards to PFS. I'd be exposing myself to significant table variation on a thing that requires a very dedicated build.
Not at all, just pull out your copy of AA and ask them to argue with the text that's printed. If they refuse to go by official printing, then you complain to the next highest VO as they clearly have to abide by what's printed.
They could argue, because Ultimate Equipment is a later printing and could be considered errata to the scorpion whip.
Understand that I am not disagreeing with you necessarily, just that the argument could be made (hence table variation). I am just giving the advice that I would give anyone at this point and that would be to avoid the scorpion whip in PFS.
