I think I might have posted this in the wrong forum earlier, the Pathfinder Setting General Discussion one. I am in some need of advice on how to handle my character's religion and get ideas on how to make that religion a part of his character. I will run anything that needs a ruling by my DM, but I think this will be the best way to get ideas on how to handle this sort of thing.
Here is the post from the other thread with some minor edits.
Hello, I have a character concept that I have been trying to fire off in play by post games for the last long while, and now that I have joined a Spelljammer+Pathfinder game that looks like it will last in the long term, I realized that I have some deficits in my knowledge as a player in how being a Worshiper of Abadar works.
Like, what information available on the wikis and in Faiths of Balance isn't really helping me. So I thought I would ask for ideas on how to play being a worshiper of Abadar.
The character I am playing is a lvl9(Rogue 2/Gunslinger 7) Neutral alignment Gnoll who survived voicing complaints of his tribe's new leader, a mad "prophet" who whipped the tribe up into attacking a much superior force. Safe to say, those that saw the bad idea and decided to do the smart thing and just hightail it without saying anything won in that regard. In any case, he got thrown off the mountain and into the desert. After some revelations in the desert about how Gnolls "play house" and think that's all there to be, and how worshiping a mad goddess might really not be the best idea if you want personal comfort and riches, he gets saved from dying in the desert by a Tienese merchant who he gets the idea to head to Ketapesh with. He gets introduced to Abadar in his Tienese incarnation and his Inner Sea incarnation. He started adventuring when adventurer related explosion happened to his pawn shop. He might have a shift towards Neutral Good later, if things play out that way, but as he stands he as motivated by profit and selfish impulses and tempered by knowing that there are limits to what he should pursue. Oh, and there's a dash of crazy "I will show them!" spite, given that worshiping Lamashtu and being a raider only results in being a filthy cave dweller dying at the hands of humans who live so much more richly(in some cases). That's the basic backstory.
Now, in practice I plan on playing him as sort of like Young Scrooge McDuck and maybe some flakes of Thomas Edision thrown in as well as being a nouveau riche try hard...and due to how I am being introduced, maybe there are some other things, but I can deal with that later. He wants money, he wants comfort, he wants to meet his life goals, and he realizes that working hard is a way to get it. And if WBL is any case, working hard is proving to be a pretty great way to obtain wealth. He worships Abadar because unlike Lamashtu, who's general machinations require Gnolls to be primitive monster barbarian raiders, worshiping Abadar meanings constructing a situation where comfort and luxury is possible and may be possible for the worshiper.
Basically...Why "play house" in a cave somewhere when you can have things like gourmet meals, trade that brings in luxuries, and comfort beyond what is found in raiding? I mean, Gnolls recognize the slave trade as a method of income in some cases, and they recognize material goods that have value outside of subsistence living. So surrounding yourself in luxury that you stole in a cave and just letting it get ruined by your hard living seems dull compared to having a steady safe stream of that sort of thing.
So I find myself in a problem, now that he worships Abadar, I find myself not really knowing what exactly that entails. Sure, I know the basic ideals on which Abadarians(?) work towards, that they worship indoors, and that they don't believe in handouts, but believe in some social work. However, what a wealth and comfort driven worshiper thinks and does is a little outside my ideas. I know what he would do in general, but what about on his religious days? What about his daily prayers? That sort of thing.
Also, as Abadar is also the god of spreading civilization, does that mean as one of the few Gnoll worshipers out there(presumably there are others or none), would he be required to polytheize to other Gnolls later in life? If one did have to polytheize, would they have to be a cleric to be a missionary? If so, would Abadar appear to him to be some sort of Gnoll or if such efforts were to happen, would Abadar have some sort of race specific image? To the west he looks western, to the east he looks eastern, would he look like a monster to a monster?
Though given that Abadar seems to allow freedom of choice, the missionary thing might not come up at all, but I thought I would ask.
From the gist of things, Abadar on the whole, seems unconcerned about race. Just that you try to be civilized and advanced civilizations and the economy. Follow the law if it makes sense. Don't be stupid and ruin everything for everyone. Etc. So, would a Gnoll be accepted if he gave up the life of a raider? A Pastoralist becomes a Agriculturalist, Nomad into a City Dweller, a drain on the economy to a participant? My character already tries to be disguised as much as he can by a greater hat of disguise, and I built and equipped him with what I honestly think he would be like...but he had to start without that and he had to walk his road to his new religion as himself. I mean he is from Ketapesh, which allows a Gnoll ghetto if I recall, and they are accepted residents at most times. So there are some ways into human civilization for gnolls. Less so else where, but there are some ways in.
How does previous life figure in when it is just a change of lifestyle? A raider stops raiding because he recognizes that the comfort/reward ratio is better being on the other side? My Gnoll never apologized for his previous actions in life. He stopped raiding(to a point, I mean being a adventurer means being a raider some of the time), he stopped carrion eating(because that bothers people, not because he finds it objectionable, meat is meat), he stopped slaving in non Abadarian approved methods(though as a lvl 1 Rogue when he was cast out, I doubt he had any). Would the Abadarian church accept that as it is, or would they mandate compensation? What if no one can be compensated due to the fact that those crimes were committed to victims that were strangers and soon forgotten? Would converting and changing lifestyle be enough to begin with and his new precepts and lifestyle be their own form of recompense? Due to his new beliefs, he would pay his taxes, and contribute to the community and economy, and be a good "citizen"...but he did do bad things in a previous part of his life. How would Abadarian faith handle that?
I also have my character sort of being future minded, that he wants to invest in labor saving technologies like the movable type printing press(which has been invented IIRC, they even made a canon Golem version), firearms, and steam power(one rank in craft steamworks). What are the Abadarian positions on new technologies? Would they be adopted after prototyping and QA as just the natural progression of civilization? I mean they support public health, which means they would support public education. Public education is not for the benefit of the individual after all, it is for the benefit of society. Just as public health is. So in theory, supporting education means supporting advancement of technologies if they advance civilization. Right?
On that point, what would really living like a Abadarian mean? From what I can tell, being a Abadarian Adventurer means being a team player, and bringing civilization to the wilderness...but not all religious people are missionaries, so I would assume some Abadarians who adventure would also just be Adventurers who happen to worship Abadar. Right? Or would this be mandated religiously?
And lastly in this OP, what would be the slang and living standards of a Abadarian? What would be their terms, their taboos, their favorable activities, etc?
If anyone wants to help me by checking if the stats are any good later, that would be great too! :)
That's a bit of a "wall of text", so I just picked out a few things to reply to.
would he be required to polytheize to other Gnolls later in life?Required? No. But it seems to me that if any other Gnolls show up wishing to join civilized society, your character would be expected to take them under his wings.
If one did have to polytheize, would they have to be a cleric to be a missionary?No, but given the Lawful nature of the faith he would be expected to be a member of the church I imagine.
If so, would Abadar appear to him to be some sort of Gnoll or if such efforts were to happen, would Abadar have some sort of race specific image? To the west he looks western, to the east he looks eastern, would he look like a monster to a monster?Possible, but doubtful. I can't see Abadar adjusting himself to suit his followers, but there would be nothing wrong as such with Abadar portrayed as a Gnoll (to non-Humans anyway).
So, would a Gnoll be accepted if he gave up the life of a raider?Doubtful, but it would depend on the city.
A raider stops raiding because he recognizes that the comfort/reward ratio is better being on the other side?I would imagine is greed gets redirected - from just taking what he wants by force, to just taking what he wants by mercantile guile.
Would the Abadarian church accept that as it is, or would they mandate compensation?Compensation for what? He didn't wrong the church, did he? If victims of his original crimes (or their family) show up and demand justice though, that would put the PC in a spot of bother. I can't see the faith of Abadar being very forgiving in these matters, so it might be wise to travel far and keep his past crimes a secret.
How would Abadarian faith handle that?A crime is a crime, and the Gnoll's crimes were a direct assault on commerce and civilization. I think the faith would hand him over to the authorities and even advice a very strict punishment.
being a Abadarian Adventurer means being a team player, and bringing civilization to the wilderness
Or bringing the wilderness to the light of civilization, which could be the theme of this character: shedding himself of his racial background to become a true urbanite.
@VRMH
Yeah, sorry about that. Here are my responses.
1. Right, I will keep that in mind.
2. Do you mean be a member of the church as being a recognized parishioner and worshiper in a church who has been authorized or being a actual ordained member of the church who has been charged with being a missionary?
3. Well, okay, that makes sense. Though in the source material he appears as a Tian-Shu man in Tian and in the Inner Sea region he looks more local. So that was why I asked.
4. Ketapesh seems to accept them, and he is from there. Right now, he'll be in space and going to places later, but I will try to use him in more Inner Sea focused games later. Good to know.
5. Right. That and operating in a sustainable manner.
6. Probably not, he would have raided caravans and such. Though would those victims have to prove he was a gnoll in a specific instance of raiding or would any victim of gnoll raiding be able to press charges? Also being far away is a given at the moment.
7. It would be a given, that all Gnolls probably participated in crimes of those nature, but given there is a Gnoll ghetto in Ketapesh, how that is handled will take some thought. I will run it by my GM later, as I suspect that other churches might charge him regardless.
Thanks for the answers. I will look forward for more responses from you and everyone else. :)