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While looking through the Pathfinder SRD I came across a bunch of stuff about future technology, and it got me and a friend pretty interested since we've always wanted to do a more sci-fi style game. Then the crazy guy said he would DM one, and said that I should try and make a class based on like a cyborg super soldier, and seeing as I've been playing way to much Revengeance this idea just kinda spat out from my brain lol.
This is the first real draft and I'm preeeetty sure it's got some issues, and while I'm pretty happy with it I know it could be better, hence why I'm putting it here! so if anyones ever wanted to be a cyborg ninja give me a hand :D
bumps for impatience and hope lol
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There is no such thing as playing way to much Revengeance - of course you should be careful about using the title in conversations.^^
Don't have the time right now, but I will look into it later, but my first thought was, why wasn't this a PRC? And needs an explicit inability to wear armor, just not giving proficiency doesn't cut it.
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I have to be honest. I can really tell it's a first draft. The class is a mess. If a player presented this to me, I'd flat out tell them "No." For starters, the class basically gets weapon training, a 5th level ability, at 2nd level.
I did have a laugh when I read:
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: A Cybernetic Slayer is proficient with all simple and martial weapons, and with shields (but not tower shields). They are not proficient with any armor besides their body.
Upon reading this, I started presenting myself to my friends, proudly shouting "I AM PROFICIENT WITH MY BODY."
I have to be honest. I can really tell it's a first draft. The class is a mess. If a player presented this to me, I'd flat out tell them "No." For starters, the class basically gets weapon training, a 5th level ability, at 2nd level.
I did have a laugh when I read:
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: A Cybernetic Slayer is proficient with all simple and martial weapons, and with shields (but not tower shields). They are not proficient with any armor besides their body.Upon reading this, I started presenting myself to my friends, proudly shouting "I AM PROFICIENT WITH MY BODY."
Well their body is armor and I didn't know how better to put it lol, as for the 'weapon training at 2nd level'...I'm not sure how +1 is such a big deal with a weapon you'd likely not be upgrading with cash for a good while, nothings set in stone but I can't imagine an HF blade being cheap to upgrade, I'm not even sure it should be upgradable normally at all considering the stuff it can get.
And what can I say I prefer buffing melee in my games then nerfing anything lol, and when people are toting laser rifles and rocket launchers around while your fighting off tanks, that early +1 might help I figured. How else is it a mess though so I can take a look and see if I can't fix it?
There is no such thing as playing way to much Revengeance - of course you should be careful about using the title in conversations.^^
Don't have the time right now, but I will look into it later, but my first thought was, why wasn't this a PRC? And needs an explicit inability to wear armor, just not giving proficiency doesn't cut it.
I could see just prohibiting the use of it all together, I didn't think it was nessisary since the armor bonuses wouldn't stack anyway.
As for why it's not a PRC, thats mainly because I had no idea what class would even be the focus for getting it besides "anything that wants to cut things", and that I felt some of the powers I wanted to emulate were a tad hard to pin down in just a few levels. I knew at 20 I wanted to it to be Raiden in the game, cut everything in like 2 hits thats not a super armord, and chuck giant robots while doing ninja things, your trying to emulate Raiden, Sam, and Grey Fox with the class specifically was the goal.
It doesn't follow standard writing style. I normally don't give that criticism for homebrew material, but I find the class a chore to read. Good rules text is concise, unambiguous, and easy to read. However, much of the text in your class has too much bloat and fails to adequately explain the class features. Let's take this ability for example:
1) The first sentence is completely unnecessary and could be combined with the second.
2) The text does not actually say what kind of weapon the blade is. The ability should explicitly say that, at 2nd level, a cybernetic slayer gains a special slashing or piercing designated as the slayer's blade.
3) The second sentence says the class receives bonuses to attack and damage rolls using the weapon. However, the third sentence implies these are enhancement bonuses. Enhancement bonuses have an entire suite of rules and exist as a trait belonging to a weapon. For example, +1 longsword is a longsword with a +1 enhancement bonus.
4) I have absolutely no idea what the ability means when it says "Alternatively you can apply these bonuses toward Psionic weapon enhancements." I assume it means
5) Finally, the last sentence mentions "psionic weapon enhancements." What's a psionic weapon enhancement? If your class utilizes content not found in Pathfinder's core rules, then you should explicitly reference where to find that content. This is especially true if you use rules from a 3rd party source.
This ability has only three sentences, and yet I don't have a clear idea how it works. It would take me hours to go through the entire class and point out what's wrong. The class is a mess and needs a complete rewrite.
Designing classes is a difficult task. I highly recommend making this a fighter archetype or a prestige class.
It doesn't follow standard writing style. I normally don't give that criticism for homebrew material, but I find the class a chore to read. Good rules text is concise, unambiguous, and easy to read. However, much of the text in your class has too much bloat and fails to adequately explain the class features. Let's take this ability for example:
** spoiler omitted **
1) The first sentence is completely unnecessary and could be combined with the second.
2) The text does not actually say what kind of weapon the blade is. The ability should explicitly say that, at 2nd level, a cybernetic slayer gains a special slashing or piercing designated as the slayer's blade.
3) The second sentence says the class receives bonuses to attack and damage rolls using the weapon. However, the third sentence implies these are enhancement bonuses. Enhancement bonuses have an entire suite of rules and exist as a trait belonging to a weapon. For example, +1 longsword is a longsword with a +1 enhancement bonus.
4) I have absolutely no idea what the ability means when it says "Alternatively you can apply these bonuses toward Psionic weapon enhancements." I assume it means
5) Finally, the last sentence mentions "psionic weapon enhancements." What's a psionic weapon enhancement? If your class utilizes content not found in Pathfinder's core rules, then you should explicitly reference where to find that content. This is especially true if you use rules from a 3rd party source.This ability has only three sentences, and yet I don't have a clear idea how it works. It would take me...
Alright I'll just reply to the points
1: I suppose, I prefer to add some form of flavor text out of preferance since I feel like just "you get this" makes classes feel a little bland, but I admit I can suck at writing lol.
2:It doesn't need to because it says so under the actual blade itself, one paragraph up under "High-Frequency Blade- These High-Frequency blades usually resemble (and function as) a katana due to the superior shape for cutting purposes, as well as HF blades by design are usually single edged since the ‘back’ of the blade is part of the device. "
3+4: You get just a static, nameless bonus that YOU have, OR you can alternatively put the +1 toward an equvilant psionic enhancement thats in the weapon itself. It's exactly as it says on the tin. Just because you can choose to put an enhancement ability on it instead refers nothing to the original +1 being an enhancement bonus :/
5: as in the psionic stuff made for pathfinder by dreamscarred press thats on the pathfinder SRD? I can put a link on it I just assumed by now it was known easy access, my fault on that.
I'm honestly rather confused how it's hard to see how it works...you hit level 2, you get +1 to attack and hit with the thing you got at first level, or you can put a power in it, thats it.
I have made classes before and I know it's not 'easy' for some designs, but this is a first draft like I said. Also it would fail horribly to ever capture any of the goals (Be like Raiden/Grey Fox) as a fighter archetype when it would just redo the whole class anyway (and fighter is too low of a balance point to begin with), and while I thought about it as a prestige at first, I felt a gradual build up of 20 levels would be far easier to balance and get the feel right than just 10, especially considering the benifits of being basically a robot with a CON score and a sword that cleaves through...well anything it can hit eventually.
For the most part, I agree with Cyrad. You should probably combine the entries on the sword in lieu of separating them out, for example.
Regarding the Paizo SRD, last time I checked, it wasn't up there, as Paizo only includes their own material. You're probably referring to d20PFSRD.com, which includes 3rd party publishers.
I'd recommend making your own chart with the psionics traits readily available for the viewer and general reference. You can include or exclude anything you'd like with regard to your vision.
In essence, the suggestions so far would bring it to a "second draft" phase and improve clarity and organization.
For the most part, I agree with Cyrad. You should probably combine the entries on the sword in lieu of separating them out, for example.
Regarding the Paizo SRD, last time I checked, it wasn't up there, as Paizo only includes their own material. You're probably referring to d20PFSRD.com, which includes 3rd party publishers.
I'd recommend making your own chart with the psionics traits readily available for the viewer and general reference. You can include or exclude anything you'd like with regard to your vision.
In essence, the suggestions so far would bring it to a "second draft" phase and improve clarity and organization.
I mostly seperated them because it technically would be a seperate ability wouldn't it? you get the sword first, then you start getting bonuses next level. I could combine them I suppose, though I'm not sure I like how that would 'technically' put in dead levels at 2, 6, 10, 14, and 18. I wouldn't really know what to put in their place that wouldn't be too much.
Yeah I do mean the d20PFSRD, it's what always comes up first when I googled "Pathfinder SRD" so I thought that was the main one, I see I am incorrect, and yeah I could probably take a little time to pick the abilities from there that would probably fit best for each +X.
1) You didn't describe the flavor very elegantly either. There's ways to ensure the flavor flows well into the mechanics, which I'm sure a second draft can clear up.
2) Enhanced blade did not reference HF blade (that ability has its own host of problems). This ability probably should have been combined with it, in my opinion.
3+4) The enhanced blade ability does not explain this. There's a big mechanical difference between getting a +1 bonus on attack and damage rolls and getting a +1 enhancement bonus to a weapon, even if the net benefit appears the same.
5) Dreamscarred Press's material is on the d20PFSRD, not the official SRD. It's still 3pp. If you mention rules outside of official material, you should reference where it comes from.
You can't assume people will innately understand your vague rules descriptions, especially when they let the player interchange non-interchangeable mechanics and when the language is sloppy. People aren't mind readers.
I mostly seperated them because it technically would be a seperate ability wouldn't it? you get the sword first, then you start getting bonuses next level. I could combine them I suppose, though I'm not sure I like how that would 'technically' put in dead levels at 2, 6, 10, 14, and 18. I wouldn't really know what to put in their place that wouldn't be too much.
Yeah I do mean the d20PFSRD, it's what always comes up first when I googled "Pathfinder SRD" so I thought that was the main one, I see I am incorrect, and yeah I could probably take a little time to pick the abilities from there that would probably fit best for each +X.
It isn't so much a separate ability as an extension of it. If you removed the bonus, the levels would be dead, but you're not removing the bonus. You would still mention, as a reminder, supapowah sword (+1) or (+2) at the appropriate levels.
A lot of people misunderstand to one degree or another what a "dead level" really is and it isn't anyone's fault, really. Been at this for some time now and I still get hung up on it with my own homebrew.
As far as the SRD goes, I prefer to use d20PFSRD just because it shows up first. I think you have to enter Paizo SRD to get the "official" one, which is a little less navigation friendly, in my opinion (I don't find sorting by book to be easier, for example, than just clicking base classes). My opinion, mind you.
1) You didn't describe the flavor very elegantly either.
2) Enhanced blade did not reference HF blade (that ability has its own host of problems). This ability probably should have been combined with it, in my opinion.
3+4) The enhanced blade ability does not explain this. There's a big mechanical difference between getting a +1 bonus on attack and damage rolls and getting a +1 enhancement bonus to a weapon, even if the net benefit appears the same.
5) Dreamscarred Press's material is on the d20PFSRD, not the official SRD. It's still 3pp. If you mention rules outside of official material, you should reference where it comes from.
You can't assume people will innately understand your vague rules descriptions, especially when they let the player interchange non-interchangeable mechanics and when the language is sloppy. People aren't mind readers.
It tsays they get the bonus with 'their blade', as in the one THEY get, I can just add the HF in front I guess, and the flavor is just them tinkering with it to make it a better fit, weight, shape, and just in general working with it more, I might have been bad at that bit.
I'm still confused how it's vague, you get one, or you get the other, nothing more :/. I'm also not sure what uninterchangable, You choose which applies, either a +1 that is all you (it applies to all HF blades you might pick up), or an ability thats in the weapon itself (IE, if you pick up another HF blade it doesn't transfer, but is a more unique trait). On that note what exactly wrong with the HF blade itself? I get the charge thing is a little clunky but I want it to do 'something' without just 'being adamantine' since thata good bit of free money at first level.
And now I'm aware of the difference, I didn't actually know the other one didn't have it since I never directly visited it other then when it's links first popped up for like spell descriptions I was looking up. I'm not assuming anyone is a mind reader, I did incorrectly assume what resource people use though.
It isn't so much a separate ability as an extension of it. If you removed the bonus, the levels would be dead, but you're not removing the bonus. You would still mention, as a reminder, supapowah sword (+1) or (+2) at the appropriate levels.
A lot of people misunderstand to one degree or another what a "dead level" really is and it isn't anyone's fault, really. Been at this for some time now and I still get hung up on it with my own homebrew.
As far as the SRD goes, I prefer to use d20PFSRD just because it shows up first. I think you have to enter Paizo SRD to get the "official" one, which is a little less navigation friendly, in my opinion (I don't find sorting by book to be easier, for example, than just clicking base classes). My opinion, mind you.
Hmmm thats a good point, I guess I slipped into making it a seperetly tacked thing out of need for a 'fill' lol. And yeah I just looked over the other SRD and I have to say it's a bit weird to look through, but how about this instead for the ability?
"High-Frequency Blade(Ex): After the augmentation process the newly christened Slayer is granted their orders weapon of choice, a sword reinforced by a powerful alternating current that resonates at extremely high frequencies. This oscillation weakens the molecular bonds of anything it cuts, thereby increasing its cutting ability. These High-Frequency blades usually resemble (and function as) a katana due to the superior shape for cutting purposes, as well as HF blades by design are usually single edged since the ‘back’ of the blade is part of the device. Unfortunatly the intricate nature of the HF Blade is such that improving it physically outside is a difficult endeavor, taking twice as long and costing 50% more to apply enhancement bonuses to it.
The blades oscillation requires manual activation to utilise, doing so is a swift action that consumes 1 point of energy per round while active, and doing so allows them to ignore an object's hardness as if they were adamantine.
At 2nd level and every 4 level afterword your skill with the HF blade improves, granting a stacking +1 inherent bonus to attack and damage rolls with the weapon."
I also just thought of tying the extra bonus to it being active, though with how slow you recover energy I don't think thats fair.
The concept is interesting. You could probably cover most of it using an Android Cyber-Soldier (from technology guide), with several cybernetics. Maybe a combination with a nanite-blooded bloodrager (similar to the sorcerer bloodline from People of the River), with tech based spells. Also, a null blade would fit nicely thematically.
Keep in mind that the jack you see in the game is already a very high level character, with lots of experience and expensive equipment. To produce effects that resemble some aspects of the game you would nedd a high level character, probably Mythic.
The concept is interesting. You could probably cover most of it using an Android Cyber-Soldier (from technology guide), with several cybernetics. Maybe a combination with a nanite-blooded bloodrager (similar to the sorcerer bloodline from People of the River), with tech based spells. Also, a null blade would fit nicely thematically.
Keep in mind that the jack you see in the game is already a very high level character, with lots of experience and expensive equipment. To produce effects that resemble some aspects of the game you would nedd a high level character, probably Mythic.
I thought of that but didn't think it all wrapped up nice enough lol, and yeah I know the goal was to be Raiden in the game at 20th level
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Well, since I am a little bit in a hurry you get the stream of consciousness version of my critique:
- A class with d10, full bab progression, good class skill list with a number of knowledge skills and 4 hp per level, that is already a bit much. Maybe reduce the skill points and the knowledge skills, and add something like bardic knowledge to simulate access through some kind of database access. It's not like the characters you want to emulate need to know this stuff, they usually have remote access to experts and mission specialists.
- Proficiency in all weapons seems right, since Revengeance Raiden can use quite funky weapons.
-Saves seem to fit.
-So you get a fancy metal body worth quite a lot of money at level 1 for free and this gives you:
- light at will (more like a hooded lantern)
- a commcast, a 6000 GP device that uses quite a lot of charges
- a camcorder
- a mithril chainshirt with no max dex (that is pretty much an epic feat)
- DR1 and the movement enhancement of a barbarian
At level one that is pretty damn much.
HF Blade: So you can ignore hardness sometimes, so basically an adamantine weapon whenever you need it.
Enhanced Blade:Should be an enhancement bonus.
Bioconversion: Level 4 is already way better than two existing classes combined.
Blade Mode: No automatic critical threats are a bad thing.
Bioconversion stage 3: NO, just no.
.....
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Augments: These seem to be a complete replacement for the traditional wealth pathfinder characters tend to find. That is a complete no go.
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Ok I have to stop here, the class is pretty much unsalvageable since the basic premise does not work with the way pathfinder works. You are supposed to get the cool things do do from your class levels and the cool things to have from loot.
Oh and since the character does not have the Technologist feat, he can't even use a toaster.
My suggestion would be to make this a PRC, after all Raiden was a child soldier, and later a more of less secret agent. He pretty much saved the world as a boring old human, but already with a HF blade.
His augments can be replicated in pathfinder, but they are very very expensive, this is one of those concepts that do not work from level 1.
If I were to replicate Raiden in pathfinder (without all the tech, since I am not familiar with the Technology guide yet, it would look a little like this (without using mythic):
Male Human Magus (Kensai) 11 (Pathfinder RPG Ultimate Combat 0; Pathfinder RPG Ultimate Magic 9)
NG Medium humanoid (human)
Init +6; Senses Perception +11
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Defense
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AC 20, touch 17, flat-footed 14 (+2 armor, +6 Dex, +1 natural, +1 deflection)
hp 80 (11d8+22)
Fort +11, Ref +7, Will +9
Defensive Abilities canny defense, deed: evasive, fortification 50%
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Offense
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Speed 30 ft.
Melee +2 construct-bane adamantine katana +17/+12 (1d8+7/15-20 plus 2d6 vs. Construct)
Special Attacks deed: opportune parry and riposte, magus arcana (arcane accuracy, arcane deed, enduring blade, flamboyant arcana), spellstrike
Magus (Kensai) Spells Prepared (CL 11th; concentration +15):
. . 4th—greater infernal healing{super}ISWG{/super}, greater invisibility
. . 3rd—greater magic weapon, haste, vampiric touch, versatile weapon{super}APG{/super} (DC 17)
. . 2nd—ablative barrier{super}UC{/super}, bladed dash, spider climb, tactical acumen{super}UC{/super}
. . 1st—infernal healing{super}ISWG{/super}, shield, shocking grasp, shocking grasp, sundering shards (DC 15)
. . 0 (at will)—dancing lights, daze (DC 14), mage hand, prestidigitation
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Statistics
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Str 20, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 18, Wis 10, Cha 10
Base Atk +8; CMB +13 (+17 sunder); CMD 26 (28 vs. sunder)
Feats Combat Casting, Extra Arcana[UM], Extra Arcana[UM], Greater Sunder, Greater Weapon Focus (katana), Improved Critical (katana), Improved Sunder, Intensified Spell[APG], Power Attack, Weapon Focus (katana)
Traits killer, magical knack
Skills Acrobatics +13, Appraise +6, Bluff +1, Climb +13, Diplomacy +4, Disguise +3, Escape Artist +6, Fly +6, Intimidate +14, Knowledge (arcana) +9, Knowledge (dungeoneering) +8, Knowledge (engineering) +14, Knowledge (history) +6, Knowledge (planes) +8, Perception +11, Spellcraft +10, Stealth +13, Survival +1, Swim +10, Use Magic Device +5; Racial Modifiers deed: derring-do
Languages Common, Undercommon
SQ arcane pool, chosen weapon, critical perfection, iaijutsu, spell combat, perfect strike, superior reflexes
Other Gear +1 fortification (moderate) glamered impervious haramaki, +2 construct-bane adamantine katana, amulet of natural armor +1, belt of giant strength +4, cloak of resistance +2, headband of vast intelligence +2, ring of protection +1, 150 gp
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TRACKED RESOURCES
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Arcane Pool +3 (9/day) (Su) - 0/9
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Special Abilities
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Arcane Accuracy +4 (Su) 1 Arcane Pool: +4 to attack rolls until the end of your turn.
Arcane Pool +3 (9/day) (Su) Infuse own power into a held weapon, granting enhancement bonus or selected item powers.
Canny Defense +4 (Ex) +INT bonus to AC (max Kensai level).
Chosen Weapon (Katana) Kensai abilities only function when wielding a weapon of this type.
Combat Casting +4 to Concentration checks to cast while on the defensive.
Critical Perfection +4 (Ex) Bonus to confirm threats & qualify early for critical feats with chosen weapon.
Deed: Derring-Do (+2 extra dice) (Ex) Use 1 panache, +1d6 to Escape Artist, Fly, Ride, or Swim check. On a 6, roll another die.
Deed: Evasive (Ex) While have 1 panache, gain evasion, uncanny dodge, improved uncanny dodge.
Deed: Opportune Parry and Riposte (Ex) 1 panache and 1 AoO to attempt to parry a melee attack, then counterattack.
Enduring Blade (Su) 1 Arcane Pool: Duration of enchants to magus weapon increase to 1 minute per level.
Flamboyant Arcana (Ex) Gain a selection of deeds, and can use arcane pool in place of panache for them.
Fortification 50% You have a chance to negate critical hits on attacks.
Greater Sunder When destroying an item, extra damage is transferred to the wielder.
Iaijutsu (Ex) May draw chosen weapon and make attacks of opportunity when flat footed.
Improved Spell Combat (Ex) Use a weapon with one hand at -2 and cast a spell with the other.
Improved Sunder You don't provoke attacks of opportunity when sundering.
Intensified Spell You can cast a spell that can exceed its normal damage die cap by 5 (if you have the caster level to reach beyond that cap).
Killer Add weapon's critical modifier to its critical bonus damage.
Magical Knack (Magus [Kensai]) +2 CL for a specific class, to a max of your HD.
Perfect Strike (Ex) Use 1 arcane pool to maximize weapon dam, or 2 for +1 to crit multiplier.
Power Attack -3/+6 You can subtract from your attack roll to add to your damage.
Spellstrike (Su) Deliver touch spells as part of a melee attack.
Superior Reflexes (Ex) Extra attacks of opportunity equal to Int mod (min 1). Combat reflexes stacks.
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I am quite happy with it, especially sine I managed to snag, evasion, improved evasion and uncanny dodge. This Raiden can sunder/cut apart any Robot, and has some healing on the form of infernal healing and vampiric touch, thus emulation healing from absorbing nanites.
Anyway that is my take on it, of course Slayer/Monk or Swashbucker/Monk could work too.
Well, since I am a little bit in a hurry you get the stream of consciousness version of my critique:
- A class with d10, full bab progression, good class skill list with a number of knowledge skills and 4 hp per level, that is already a bit much. Maybe reduce the skill points and the knowledge skills, and add something like bardic knowledge to simulate access through some kind of database access. It's not like the characters you want to emulate need to know this stuff, they usually have remote access to experts and mission specialists.
- Proficiency in all weapons seems right, since Revengeance Raiden can use quite funky weapons.
-Saves seem to fit.
-So you get a fancy metal body worth quite a lot of money at level 1 for free and this gives you:
- light at will (more like a hooded lantern)
- a commcast, a 6000 GP device that uses quite a lot of charges
- a camcorder
- a mithril chainshirt with no max dex (that is pretty much an epic feat)
- DR1 and the movement enhancement of a barbarianAt level one that is pretty damn much.
HF Blade: So you can ignore hardness sometimes, so basically an adamantine weapon whenever you need it.
Enhanced Blade:Should be an enhancement bonus.
Bioconversion: Level 4 is already way better than two existing classes combined.
Blade Mode: No automatic critical threats are a bad thing.
Bioconversion stage 3: NO, just no.
.....
.....
....
Augments: These seem to be a complete replacement for the traditional wealth pathfinder characters tend to find. That is a complete no go.
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Ok I have to stop here, the class is pretty much unsalvageable since the basic premise does not work with the way pathfinder works. You are supposed to get the cool things do do from your class levels and the cool things to have from loot.
Oh and since the character does not have the Technologist feat, he can't even use a toaster.
My suggestion would be to make this...
Firstly, how is that much at level 1? the chain shirt fine, but you can't wear armor anyway, and you'd always pick armor that never impedes your dex anyway unless planning on dumping dex and tanking. I can remove the move speed bonuse since they can select the power to speed boost and DR/1 isn't really much of anything, but how are the other things much? The commset only works if someone else has one so it's not likely you'll be using it right away, a flashlight is dirt cheap and something you'd probably just 'have' anyway, and the camera is entirely out of combat in use. The body at first only provides those and the armor with a little resistance to poison and disease, it doesn't even give the normal bonuses cybernetic parts give at first.
Bioconversion- What two classes are you meaning, and their just minor survival bonuses. The +4 saves I suppose could be made to +2.
Blade Mode- I'm not sure why this is an issue, you get it once a day, it takes a resource you'll need 5 rounds to bring back, and it's for a full attack..at 8th level. They will likely be outdamaged by the raging barbarian full attacking something for most of the game, it's just their "I need to hurt something" move like a martial needs.
Stage 3- Whats the big issue? is it Fatigue or ability damage? This sorta thing is mostly just to show "yeah, your a damn robot", without the rather dimilitating construct type, I suppose spacing them out a little more is fine, but I personally prefer a Martial to have a decent level of 'no' against things to help them live.
Augments- how exactly is this wealth replacement? their bonuses you get to the class that are more or less the items yes, but (and I know this isn't written there so I can't blame anyone but myself for forgetting) I don't intend to allow similar tech to stack, if you pick the upgrade to increase your strength, you can by the similar cybertech that does the same, you could however pay the money for the strength one, and use the class to pick the dex one for example. Martials are insanely reliant on items, and in a tech based world shouldn't a guy made of tech you know...get tech? it's too expensive to buy normally at the starting levels.
I do respect you opinions and thank you for the input, but I personally disagree. The class gives you cool things, and you would get loot. I admit my personal thoughts on play leak into design since I'm the type of player to scorn weapon drops because I want to just keep upgrading my starting sword, or that I pretty much don't want magic items, prefering instead to use money on things like one use special items, potions, and story related deals like room and board or bribing.
I actually didn't know about the technologist feat cause I just started by looking at the cybertech stuff lol, probably just add something about that, and while I can understand the idea of it being a prestige for Raiden himself, this is more about copying him than for him specifically, emulation on a slower basis.
As for your magus yeah thats kinda cool but..I can't help seeing it as just a magus, and if I wanted to play raiden or a similar character, I'd just wait till rules/classes/items allowed it, I just can't equate magic and spells to the feel of such a character.
I just noticed the class has Reflex as a bad save and does not point out the iterative attacks a character gets from a high BAB. Odd.
I do have to agree with Sebastion. This mostly feels like a class that let's you cheat the wealth system rather than a class all about letting you do cool cyborg ninja stuff. What abilities it does grant are broken because you undervalue the benefit they grant. If I wanted to play a cyborg ninja/samurai dude, I'd rather play Sebastion's kensai magus with a few cybernetics from Technology Guide thrown in.
I'm still confused how it's vague, you get one, or you get the other, nothing more :/. I'm also not sure what uninterchangable, You choose which applies, either a +1 that is all you (it applies to all HF blades you might pick up), or an ability thats in the weapon itself (IE, if you pick up another HF blade it doesn't transfer, but is a more unique trait). On that note what exactly wrong with the HF blade itself? I get the charge thing is a little clunky but I want it to do 'something' without just 'being adamantine' since thata good bit of free money at first level.
Enhancement bonuses are a property normally applied to weapons or an ability score. The flavor of the ability indicates the blade is becoming more powerful. However, the ability grants a flat bonus to the cybernetic slayer's attack rolls and damage rolls when using it. To make it more confusing, the ability optionally allows this to take the form of an enhancement bonus that you can somehow exchange for psionic weapon qualities. This is not intuitive at all. It's also not fully explained and raises a lot of questions. For example, when does the player choose when between the types of bonuses? Can it be changed? What action is it to change it? If they choose the enhancement bonus, can this be changed? What about the special abilities? Specifics of the ability are ambiguous. The ability might seem obvious to you, but not to everyone reading it.
I have two big problems with HF Blade. The first is that the ability has way too much flavor text. If you want to go into more detail about the workings of the weapon, you can do this outside of the class description. Paizo products usually have side-bars for this purpose. For example, the bladebound magus's black blade got a side-bar explaining the flavor details of the class feature. My second problem is that getting adamantine at 1st level strikes me as way too powerful.
This is how I'd probably rewrite the basic abilities of this class.
1) The class gets augmented existence and HF blade at 1st level and their first augmentation at 2nd level.
2) Augmented existence grants a short list of passive benefits.
3) Energy system is its own class feature and works similarly to the gunslinger's grit or follow the Technology Guide's energy system more closely. (I don't really see the point of having a resource that replenishes every round).
4) Class can spend energy point to have the HF blade deal electricity damage instead of slashing damage and bypass an amount of hardness equal to class level (this is a pretty strong ability)
5) HF blade gets an enhancement bonus at 3rd level, increasing as the class levels up. This progression follows the same as the bladebound magus's blackblade, which Paizo has used as a standard for growing weapons.
So I might rewrite HF Blade and enhanced blade to something like this:
At 3rd level, a cybernetic slayer's high-frequency blade gains a +1 enhancement bonus. This bonus increases by +1 at 5th level and every 2 levels after to a total +5 bonus at 17th level.
Also, I'm really not a fan of Blade Mode. Automatically confirming critical hits is something a fighter doesn't do until 20th level. Granted, the energy cost and having to announce it before a full attack does limit it, but it also makes the ability less reliable. Overall, it's not a very fun ability to use. Gaining the effects of haste mixed with adding the keen property to HF blade sounds more thematic, in my opinion.
I just noticed the class has Reflex as a bad save and does not point out the iterative attacks a character gets from a high BAB. Odd.
I do have to agree with Sebastion. This mostly feels like a class that let's you cheat the wealth system rather than a class all about letting you do cool cyborg ninja stuff. What abilities it does grant are broken because you undervalue the benefit they grant. If I wanted to play a cyborg ninja/samurai dude, I'd rather play Sebastion's kensai magus with a few cybernetics from Technology Guide thrown in.
I'm still confused how it's vague, you get one, or you get the other, nothing more :/. I'm also not sure what uninterchangable, You choose which applies, either a +1 that is all you (it applies to all HF blades you might pick up), or an ability thats in the weapon itself (IE, if you pick up another HF blade it doesn't transfer, but is a more unique trait). On that note what exactly wrong with the HF blade itself? I get the charge thing is a little clunky but I want it to do 'something' without just 'being adamantine' since thata good bit of free money at first level.Enhancement bonuses are a property normally applied to weapons or an ability score. The flavor of the ability indicates the blade is becoming more powerful. However, the ability grants a flat bonus to the cybernetic slayer's attack rolls and damage rolls when using it. To make it more confusing, the ability optionally allows this to take the form of an enhancement bonus that you can somehow exchange for psionic weapon qualities. This is not intuitive at all. It's also not fully explained and raises a lot of questions. For example, when does the player choose when between the types of bonuses? Can it be changed? What action is it to change it? If they choose the enhancement bonus, can this be changed? What about the special abilities? Specifics of the ability are ambiguous. The ability might seem obvious to you, but not to everyone reading it.
I have two big problems with HF Blade....
Yeah the reflex bit was a mistake that should be fixed now, I forgot to fix it when writing up the class, and the BAB thing is because I just like having everything in a level on one line of the page so it saves room.
And...how? it's a magus that kinda replicates it but it's just a magus, and will always play and use the same powers as a magus, and it's also magic which is the exact opposite flavor as well as something I really don't like using in martial classes, as a Magus, sure, but a concept around a cyborg ninja from Metal Gear would not involve magic.
I proposed a slight fix on the Enhanced blade ability, and if it's really that big of an issue it can just be an enhancement bonus. It's just a +1 so many levels thats simply to increase combat ability I didn't really think it was such a big deal if it was Inherent, unnamed, enhancement, etc at first draft. The flavor behind the flat bonus is you tweaking it to your own style and use, the other option is improving the blade itself, but I'm just taking that out anyway.
now then,
1- Augment at second I suppose works fine, I put it at 3rd to reduce the total amount of them that they get.
2- It does though lol
3- It IS it's own class feature, and the per round is to avoid the per day useage, while grit replenshes and stuff yeah I'm not a fan of Per Day uses unless it's a major ability.
4- Doesn't becomeing adamantine work fine? bypassing by level I suppose isn't a bad balance, but it's not really worth it till 5 and up, and I can see the electric bit, but thats resistable.
5- I mostly used 2nd level because of how difficult the blade is to upgrade normally, I've never had a character without a +1 weapon by second level, so I felt they should be entiled to the same.
See to me that reads mostly the same as mine without the flavor bit lol, and no no it's a critical THREAT, they do not auto confirm. I mainly put the limits to see how much weaker or stronger it should or could be made, so that ability is still something to work on for sure I already know.
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Compare your class to a fighter at level 1, same BAB, better skills, better saves, DR/1 and that is a significant amount at level 1, a free armor without armor check penalty (a chainshirt is expensive at level 1) and the resistances. Not getting an armor check penalty is a pretty big deal.
Bioconversion: Monk gets immunity to all diseases (ok you only give immunity to mundane diseases) at level 5 , Paladin gets this at 5. The monk has to wait till level 11. The bonuses against energy drain and ability damage and drains is very powerful at level 2, that alone would be worth a more than just 1 feat.
Blade Mode:Really not a fan of the idea, critical hits are very nasty especially with the right feats and weapons. Why not something like a couple rounds of heroism/divine favor/haste per day? If anything swinging like a madman is how most players will have used the ability ^^
Augments: Take a look on the hunter how his similar abilities are limited, they have a bonus type (enhancement) and a available only for a limited number of rounds per day, and take a swift action to activate.
If you keep them, make it an enhancement bonus.
The problem with wealth replacement is that players usually invest whatever the money they do not have to spend, in other things. Back when Vow of Poverty was all the rage, it just diverted money to other party members.
No other character can access that many immunity effects. It is very good in the right situations, and you have it active all the time. You are already immune to poison this is just kinda overkill. You can still be hit with so many enervations, that you just drop dead.
And the class actually poses some questions, what happens when you get reincarnated, can your body armor get sundered, what happens when you HF blade gets destroyed, apparently you can still receive healing without a hitch... I just did a search on it, and apparently constructs aren't immune to negative damage, and there is not clear rule that healing magic doesn't work.... weird.
Anyway, I would suggest a mechanic to make you HF blade (and maybe the augment weapons) your arcane bond / or give a feat like gunsmithing, so you can upgrade it yourself.
And it is always a good idea compare you class with established classes at the suggested wealth per level, I would suggest using among others ninjas and swashbucklers for this.
Getting adamantine katana at 1st level is a huge boon. That's worth more than 3000 gp. Adamantine, itself, is very powerful because it cuts through pretty much anything most characters will encounter. A character can bypass a whole dungeon just by cutting a hole through each wall. My magus always kept an adamantine dagger for this purpose. Once, I fought a big bad that hid inside a mech. Instead of fighting his mech, I merely carved a hole in the cockpit and shanked the guy.
Again, this is my main problem with most of your class's abilities. You underestimate power of the abilities you grant the class, which are wildly out of line with comparable classes. In addition, they don't really seem all that fun. Most of them are just passive benefits that cheat the wealth system.
As for your counter-argument against Sebastion's magus, one could easily refluff the magic as software programs or something. Or make a slayer or swashbuckler with cybernetics. Regardless, the general point is that a player could accomplish the same character concept with much more fun mechanics than what your class offers.
Compare your class to a fighter at level 1, same BAB, better skills, better saves, DR/1 and that is a significant amount at level 1, a free armor without armor check penalty (a chainshirt is expensive at level 1) and the resistances. Not getting an armor check penalty is a pretty big deal.
Bioconversion: Monk gets immunity to all diseases (ok you only give immunity to mundane diseases) at level 5 , Paladin gets this at 5. The monk has to wait till level 11. The bonuses against energy drain and ability damage and drains is very powerful at level 2, that alone would be worth a more than just 1 feat.
Blade Mode:Really not a fan of the idea, critical hits are very nasty especially with the right feats and weapons. Why not something like a couple rounds of heroism/divine favor/haste per day? If anything swinging like a madman is how most players will have used the ability ^^
Augments: Take a look on the hunter how his similar abilities are limited, they have a bonus type (enhancement) and a available only for a limited number of rounds per day, and take a swift action to activate.
If you keep them, make it an enhancement bonus.
The problem with wealth replacement is that players usually invest whatever the money they do not have to spend, in other things. Back when Vow of Poverty was all the rage, it just diverted money to other party members.No other character can access that many immunity effects. It is very good in the right situations, and you have it active all the time. You are already immune to poison this is just kinda overkill. You can still be hit with so many enervations, that you just drop dead.
And the class actually poses some questions, what happens when you get reincarnated, can your body armor get sundered, what happens when you HF blade gets destroyed, apparently you can still receive healing without a hitch... I just did a search on it, and apparently constructs aren't immune to negative damage, and there is not clear rule that healing magic doesn't work.... weird....
Firstly, I never use the fighter as a comparison, the fighter is too low a balance cieling to really work with, I always aim toward sorceror or cleric balance as it makes not sense to have martials so vastly weaker.
I'm just gonna say yes I'm 'underestimating' the benifit of those things at level 4, but I've never even heard of them being a problem. Poison and disease stops being an issue by that point baring the really nasty ones, I might see reducing the save benifits to +2, but it's not like your going to just always be running up against negative energy, in a game where your a cyborg, I doubt there would even be undead.
About the crits, yeah their nasty and all but it's not like 'possible' x2 damage on the attacks (usually no more than 3), where as a barbarian from level 1 says "I kill it with a full attack", Blade mode doesn't fit Haste because it's not just moving fast, it's slowing perception to a point you can precisely aim the cut to cleave through the limb/body/object, if you don't aim right (thus the confirm), it doesn't work just like in the game, and again I don't believe using spells is the correct path.
About augments, why does this always come to 'wealth replacement'? it's bonuses to things you want to do by customizing the character as you advance in level. I'm very fervantly against "items make the character", and believe that if a character is only good because of all the shiney things they wear they aren't much of a hero/villain, and classes should innatly then offer ways to improve the characters goals within the range of that character. Also on the making things rounds per day...why? that severely limits the point of selecting a good number of the abilities, which make more sence as passive because they are built into your whole body. I'm also just gonna come out and say...I don't get loot. Loot is unappealing to me, it's stuff I'm not gonna use or is always just gonna go toward more +1s on items. I'd rather have drops of grenades or something of plot relavance.
About immunities, I suppose I can take some back into resistences, but your also being made into pretty much a robot, and as a guy intending to be in the face of every enemy I honestly think all melee classes need a lot of innate ability to survive past "kill it first or let the caster do it"
To those questions the answer is a little simple in that, I hadn't really considered it. This is based on a technology world, not super magic solves life world. I would imagine you just don't get reincarnated because only your brain is there. I'd expect soul jar would would work if it was around. I didn't really intend to 'disallow' healing magic is it was around because they do have SOME biological parts, though I'd say at the total conversion it stopped working, Construsts are indeed immune to negative energy as stated- "Not subject to ability damage, ability drain, fatigue, exhaustion, energy drain, or nonlethal damage.", unless immunity to energy drain isn't equivilant. For their healing I THINK it's implyed saying they can't heal on their own but Make Whole and craft checks work that normal healing doesn't actually work on them.
Also...why more with the magic stuff?
And the wealth level is fine and all, but it's not like you can buy the items some abilities emulate, and most items just emulate CLASS abilities when they're passive so I don't see the problem in say "You get cyberfiber muscles because you got the upgrade at HQ, buying them again would be redundant." The fighter could go buy cyberfiber muscles the same, he used money, you used a whole class level, levels outweigh money I think.
Getting adamantine katana at 1st level is a huge boon. That's worth more than 3000 gp. Adamantine, itself, is very powerful because it cuts through pretty much anything most characters will encounter. A character can bypass a whole dungeon just by cutting a hole through each wall. My magus always kept an adamantine dagger for this purpose. Once, I fought a big bad that hid inside a mech. Instead of fighting his mech, I merely carved a hole in the cockpit and shanked the guy.
Again, this is my main problem with most of your class's abilities. You underestimate power of the abilities you grant the class, which are wildly out of line with comparable classes. In addition, they don't really seem all that fun. Most of them are just passive benefits that cheat the wealth system.
As for your counter-argument against Sebastion's magus, one could easily refluff the magic as software programs or something. Or make a slayer or swashbuckler with cybernetics. Regardless, the general point is that a player could accomplish the same character concept with much more fun mechanics than what your class offers.
I...just..why? why would a person even want to ruin the fun of the game by doing that o_0 I'd probably just rule it only works on doors if someone was really going to try and be that much of a spoil sport for the game. As for the Mech bit, if you can climb a mech, manage to stay on it while moving, then carve a hole in the cockpit and repeatedly stab for 1d4 till he';s dead, I would assume you'd earned that kill lol. I could see reducing it to something less at earlier levels if only to avoid players trying to ruin the point.
Now then, what classes would you even compare it too? fighters are underpowered, barbarians aren't as bad but need certain builds, rogues aren't any better then fighters...I find it pointless to balance around anything less than Sorcerer, Oracle, Cleric, and maybe Magus since they just blow the others out of the water. Caster would STILL blow this class out of the water.
I'm not going to fault you for your opinions, but I have to ask how other class features are any more fun? Fighter- woo a feat, Rogue- woo a talent, barbarian- woo a rage power, Wizard- Woo another chance to beat an encounter.
I wanted the powers to be mostly static, accumulating bonuses that stuck with the character to aid how they play and define their style, items would go to optional weapon load outs from back up firearms to grenades to healing items, instead of random power items 'nessisary' for competition.
I...really don't like the idea of saying "it's just not magic." Magic to me is very very boring. Magic is always the answer, but this isn't a magic place, this is a place of cyborgs and robots and science.
I'm not gonna say I don't want to add more abilities that are less passive mind you, I'm all for it and just didn't have any more ideas for draft one, but I've seen the Slayer and the Swashbuckler, and they are no guy capable of doing anything you do in the game, they are a Slayer and a Swashbuckler and they are cool and I would love to try them out, but I don't see how they could emulate a character like Raiden/Sam/Grey Fox.
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Okay, I think I understand now, you don't really want to play pathfinder all that much, what you want is something like D20 Moder Future Tech.
When it comes to class balance, wealth, the availability of magic items , and the kinds of enemies you encounter are pretty much baked into a big homogeneous cake. Taking things out is really hard.
So if you assume, that you play in a setting where cyborgs and constructs are the norm rather than exceptions, well this changes things.
Wanting personal powers to have a stronger impact compared to magic items is a a legitimate choice, but things like this usually have to be dealt on a system wide level, not on a class level. So everybody would gain certain bonuses based on their level, no matter the class.
But if you have a game with several classes power scaling is a factor, spells and other limited powers are very good, but can't be used all day. A fighter can swing his weapon for hours at a time without running out of charges.
One of the reasons why I don't like automatic critical threats, is that there are ways for players to auto confirm them. Of course you might argue, I would never do that, I don't like doing things like that. But when you write a class, personal preference isn't on the table, the class has to be balanced and viable for every player.
Immunity to energy drain, is not immunity to negative energy it is slightly implied, but never clearly stated.
If you want to run this without magic, it could work, but remember that the Technology guide was written for a world with plenty of magic in it.
Now the big question, but what did Grey Fox, Raiden, and Olga actually do in their ninja suits? And remember only Raiden is a real cyborg, while Grey Fox was basically a bit beef stew in a mobile flask, Olga was completely human, just using a fancy suit.
In MGS, Grey Fox was quite quick, absurdly strong, could stop bullets with his blade and attack an armored mobile launch platform.
If you put a rogue, ranger or a slayer in a powered suit, you will pretty much get the same result.
Poor Olga didn't actually do all that much.
Raiden has darkvison, can jump quite well (it's Hideo Kojima physics left this battlefield years ago), slice almost anything to ribbons (that's pretty much just an adamantine weapon), use other weapons and grenades, do a stealth kill and go into some forms of rage.
A slayer with plenty of body modifications/items could cover this reasonably well. Now a prestige class that turns you into a construct could be fun (like dragon disciple), but replicating the things those "Ninjas" actually did is not that hard.
Okay, I think I understand now, you don't really want to play pathfinder all that much, what you want is something like D20 Moder Future Tech.
When it comes to class balance, wealth, the availability of magic items , and the kinds of enemies you encounter are pretty much baked into a big homogeneous cake. Taking things out is really hard.
So if you assume, that you play in a setting where cyborgs and constructs are the norm rather than exceptions, well this changes things.
Wanting personal powers to have a stronger impact compared to magic items is a a legitimate choice, but things like this usually have to be dealt on a system wide level, not on a class level. So everybody would gain certain bonuses based on their level, no matter the class.
But if you have a game with several classes power scaling is a factor, spells and other limited powers are very good, but can't be used all day. A fighter can swing his weapon for hours at a time without running out of charges.
One of the reasons why I don't like automatic critical threats, is that there are ways for players to auto confirm them. Of course you might argue, I would never do that, I don't like doing things like that. But when you write a class, personal preference isn't on the table, the class has to be balanced and viable for every player.
Immunity to energy drain, is not immunity to negative energy it is slightly implied, but never clearly stated.
If you want to run this without magic, it could work, but remember that the Technology guide was written for a world with plenty of magic in it.
Now the big question, but what did Grey Fox, Raiden, and Olga actually do in their ninja suits? And remember only Raiden is a real cyborg, while Grey Fox was basically a bit beef stew in a mobile flask, Olga was completely human, just using a fancy suit.
In MGS, Grey Fox was quite quick, absurdly strong, could stop bullets with his blade and attack an armored mobile launch platform.
If you put a rogue, ranger or a slayer in a...
Well I wouldn't say I don't want to play pathfinder, I just don't nessisarily always feel like using a system means that you always have to include EVERYTHING in that system, most of our games have a lot of tweaks to them and we do a lot of play by ear for moments that could apply to Rule of Cool or just things a player wants to do that might be awesome/hilarious. We routinely exclude monsters, spells, or items that don't fit in with a setting. We looked over D20 modern and...some of the rules differences were glaring and didn't mesh with the group as a whole much, and we all felt the class system in it was really lackluster, then we saw the Cyber stuff in pathfinder and said "cool we can do it now" lol. Honestly we all just never even considered magic being very big around in that because how in the world would the wizard from last game be even within the same plane as a place with cybernetics.
Thankfully we've not really run into many problems needing full on system works, here and there as a DM I've nudged a monsters AC or to hit down a peg to compensate, but nothing drastic. Something we do tend to do is not mind handing free +1 (or more in higher power games) templates if it's explainable in backstory.
On threats..alright I can bite on that, I know I wouldn't cheat the system and I'm sure my friends wouldn't, but it's better to not have to trust in the end, I do find al the classes I make are influenced pretty heavy by my mood at the time so bias does come through especially on draft 1.
Hmmm, alright you have a point in that I'll switch that a little.
I do realize that after looking around more which makes me rather confused honestly lol, I don't get how you can reason them to exist in the same world when magic is sorta all powerful, I love Sci-fantasy but thats a bit much XD.
I do know Raiden is the only one of them that was a real cyborg, I just use them all as a sort of baseline for things, with Raiden the leading example of a goal. On the gray fox I guess I can see that if only because well..he was in fact a guy in a power suit. If said suit was badass enough almost anyone would be able to to that stuff, but thats more of the suits power then anything.
Poor poor olga.
I know what you mean, I really do, but I just can't reason it in myself due to how much "need special items and 10 levels" it would be to replicate it in any sence using a Slayer and cybertech as printed. You'd likely not be able to do it till 10th level or so and Cybernetics cost an arm and a leg (plenty of money too ba-zing), so upgrading your weapon/armor would be pretty hard. I'm not argueing that you could because you obviously can as you've done, but call me a really picky person in that if I have the goal of "Make a group of people that makes cyborgs emulating data they have on Raiden", I want the stuff to be pretty specific and more closely try to get the games effects down...I make my own life hard what can I say. I also started this because my DM asked me to make a class meant to do so instead of trying to reflavor stuff.
I have actually switched a bunch of stuff around in the class, some just to look at, others I'm hoping are better versions or toning down one or two things, I need another 19th level power now though since total conversion moved up to 20.
Normally if a GM wants to make a campaign where the PCs start out significantly more powerful than 1st level characters, he doesn't make them start out at 1st level. This is why I suggested making it a prestige class, which assumes the character is already 6th level or higher.
I'm not going to fault you for your opinions, but I have to ask how other class features are any more fun? Fighter- woo a feat, Rogue- woo a talent, barbarian- woo a rage power, Wizard- Woo another chance to beat an encounter.
I wanted the powers to be mostly static, accumulating bonuses that stuck with the character to aid how they play and define their style, items would go to optional weapon load outs from back up firearms to grenades to healing items, instead of random power items 'nessisary' for competition.
I could say the same for your class. That's what I mean when I say your class is just mostly passive bonuses that cheat the wealth system and a few boring broken abilities. Many existing classes have plenty of fun, interesting things they can do. The magus can full round attack while casting a spell or channel a spell through a sword. The swashbuckler can parry attacks and has a whole suite of interesting maneuvers. The brawler can change their combat style on the fly and roundhouse kick people away. The monk has flurry of blows, etc.
Normally if a GM wants to make a campaign where the PCs start out significantly more powerful than 1st level characters, he doesn't make them start out at 1st level. This is why I suggested making it a prestige class, which assumes the character is already 6th level or higher.I could say the same for your class. That's what I mean when I say your class is just mostly passive bonuses that cheat the wealth system and a few boring broken abilities. Many existing classes have plenty of fun, interesting things they can do. The magus can full round attack while casting a spell or channel a spell through a sword. The swashbuckler can parry attacks and has a whole suite of interesting maneuvers. The brawler can change their combat style on the fly and roundhouse kick people away. The monk has flurry of blows, etc.I'm not going to fault you for your opinions, but I have to ask how other class features are any more fun? Fighter- woo a feat, Rogue- woo a talent, barbarian- woo a rage power, Wizard- Woo another chance to beat an encounter.
I wanted the powers to be mostly static, accumulating bonuses that stuck with the character to aid how they play and define their style, items would go to optional weapon load outs from back up firearms to grenades to healing items, instead of random power items 'nessisary' for competition.
You not really much more powerful, you have a chain shirt and a free sword, and a few tiny bonuses. I'm really getting confused why it's such a big suggestion to make it a prestige class when that kinda ruins the whole gradual progression idea, and also ruins the ability to play the concept out the gate. Why can't someone want to be a cyborg character at first level?
I'm not gonna lie I know most of the powers are 'stock' and bland, because I'm not done with them. These are the first ones I came up with after working on the class for an hour. More on the wealth system thing, I just don't see giving you bonuses in the form of similar things any form of cheating. We've never even run things by the wealth system because it just assumes your going to run into 'X' amount of cash and items, and most of the time that just doesn't, or couldn't, happen in out games. i know that just how our group plays, but it seems like trying to strickly follow "player A will have X amount of money by level B, just because he has to" seemed really weird. This experience obvious puts me in an odd spot.
Magus is interesting, but it never really popped for me, I think the spells are what did it. Swashbucklers look interesting, it's abilities don't fit with this design so I can't pull inspiration from them sadly, though In the game parrying is a core feature so it might be fun to figure out a manner to do it. I've not seen brawler yet so i don't have much opinion there.
Like I said though i've updated some things with it, trying to flesh out a little more.
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It's hard to judge if you are really in a homebrew setting full of cybernetics, guessing the batteries/recharge rules aren't even going to apply in your setting. Heh, as long as your dm is happy with it I guess since whatever we say won't matter at the end of the day. It's just a class getting gear which is pretty meh indeed, kind of remind me of Vassal of Bahamut, a prestige class that only gave money.
It's hard to judge if you are really in a homebrew setting full of cybernetics, guessing the batteries/recharge rules aren't even going to apply in your setting. Heh, as long as your dm is happy with it I guess since whatever we say won't matter at the end of the day. It's just a class getting gear which is pretty meh indeed, kind of remind me of Vassal of Bahamut, a prestige class that only gave money.
Well I am trying to improve on that bit, though what ARE the recharge rules? I couldn't find them on the d20PFSRD (probably just half blind and missed it). I have a bit about them using sleep to recharge or doing it in 3 hours for a fast one as is though thats just a place hold deal. As for setting, somehting like a world in Deus Ex: HR at least, and Metal Gear Rising at most is the idea.
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Mostly in technological equipment. But essentially technological items have power sources but well if your setting is like deus ex or metal gear, you probably going to have unlimited power sources, so not relevant.
So if it is more like Deus Ex or MGS, so safe to assume you aren't going to be fighting magical monsters and the likes?
Mostly in technological equipment. But essentially technological items have power sources but well if your setting is like deus ex or metal gear, you probably going to have unlimited power sources, so not relevant.
So if it is more like Deus Ex or MGS, so safe to assume you aren't going to be fighting magical monsters and the likes?
Well it does have it's own energy source as part of the class lol, used to fuel certain abilities and slowly replenishes.
And your correct, we' might have a couple here and there for funs sake, but the idea is primarily a world of high technology and fighting mainly other people, robots, and possibly genetic experiments.
More on the wealth system thing, I just don't see giving you bonuses in the form of similar things any form of cheating. We've never even run things by the wealth system because it just assumes your going to run into 'X' amount of cash and items, and most of the time that just doesn't, or couldn't, happen in out games. i know that just how our group plays, but it seems like trying to strickly follow "player A will have X amount of money by level B, just because he has to" seemed really weird. This experience obvious puts me in an odd spot.
This is how Pathfinder works. Your character's power is directly proportional to their wealth. It works like this, because Pathfinder is a game about getting gear and becoming more powerful.
You not really much more powerful, you have a chain shirt and a free sword, and a few tiny bonuses.
I'm sorry you don't see how giving free quality armor and a 3000 gp sword capable of cutting through anything less dense than diamond makes a character significantly more powerful than one with a starting wealth of 100 gp.
I'm really getting confused why it's such a big suggestion to make it a prestige class when that kinda ruins the whole gradual progression idea, and also ruins the ability to play the concept out the gate.
And I don't see how there's "gradual progression" when you start out strong enough to slice a tank in half. Both Sebastion and I gave many good reasons why a 10-level prestige class fits the concept, among them being that a prestige class already assumes the character is almost superhuman and has a lot of experience under their belt. (The mathematics of 3rd edition D&D assumes that 5th level is the peak of human ability in our real world).
Why can't someone want to be a cyborg character at first level?
I do not criticize the character concept. I criticize how your class implements it. In fact, I'm actually designing a cyborg class myself. When you design a class, people expect it will (at least try to) be balanced with respect to existing material. People expect a class to do much more than simply give free items and stats, which is mostly what your class does.
Additionally, you don't need a class to be a cyborg. Instead of making a class that deliberately breaks Wealth By Level, your GM could just let you start the game with an extra amount of wealth to spend on cybernetics listed in Technology Guide. Shadowrun handles cyborg characters this way. In fact, I actually strongly recommend looking at Shadowrun.
Like I said though i've updated some things with it, trying to flesh out a little more.
The class still desperately needs a rewrite, especially when you only spent one hour on it. I'm not sure what else to say. You're deliberately not following any kind of design standards. If your GM will approve it anyway, then good for you. However, I'm not sure how I or anyone else can help you here.
More on the wealth system thing, I just don't see giving you bonuses in the form of similar things any form of cheating. We've never even run things by the wealth system because it just assumes your going to run into 'X' amount of cash and items, and most of the time that just doesn't, or couldn't, happen in out games. i know that just how our group plays, but it seems like trying to strickly follow "player A will have X amount of money by level B, just because he has to" seemed really weird. This experience obvious puts me in an odd spot.This is how Pathfinder works. Your character's power is directly proportional to their wealth. It works like this, because Pathfinder is a game about getting gear and becoming more powerful.
You not really much more powerful, you have a chain shirt and a free sword, and a few tiny bonuses.I'm sorry you don't see how giving free quality armor and a 3000 gp sword capable of cutting through anything less dense than diamond makes a character significantly more powerful than one with a starting wealth of 100 gp.
I'm really getting confused why it's such a big suggestion to make it a prestige class when that kinda ruins the whole gradual progression idea, and also ruins the ability to play the concept out the gate.And I don't see how there's "gradual progression" when you start out strong enough to slice a tank in half. Both Sebastion and I gave many good reasons why a 10-level prestige class fits the concept, among them being that a prestige class already assumes the character is almost superhuman and has a lot of experience under their belt. (The mathematics of 3rd edition D&D assumes that 5th level is the peak of human ability in our real world).
Why can't someone want to be a cyborg character at first level?I do not criticize the character concept. I criticize how your class implements it. In fact, I'm actually designing a cyborg class myself. When you design a class,...
The first point is something we've always had contention with, and rarely fully implement since it's pretty hard to rationalize getting 'loot' in the games we play, and just prefer our characters classes and innate power to better represent how capable they are, they still have special gear it's just usually much more personalized, more Thor/captain america and less Iron Man as an example, but honestly this is game difference.
I'm not sure what quality has to mean in this, if it's because it's a chain shirt, thats pretty standard fair for an armor, which never made sence in it's price to begin with. Studded Leather is 25 gold, and assuming 18 dex gives you 7 AC an a -1 ACP, but a chain shirt gives a -2 ACP and only 1 more point of AC for a 75 gold increase? The class got 'free' armor because your body is now mostly made of metal, thus is should provide armor. It's MADE that way, and to allow movement, so why should it have a max dex? it's in fact helping you move. I'm very much contemplating applying the HF blade logic to it that it would take 50% extra to enhance since it's such a complex thing.
About this whole adamantine business I could never imagine someone wanting to abuse the hardness thing to bypass the entire point of games, so like I said before, I was scaling it back, and I did. I wouldn't think our group would abuse such a thing, but we could get new players someday that would. Also 5th level seems both high and low for such a thing actually, a 1st level barbarian can defiently be an olympian without trying, and using another hero example, Captain america came out the gate better than any olympian, with level 1 experience.
I wouldn't say you could before have cut a tank in half at level one, thats assumeing you could take the time to deal enough damage to cut it in half, no hardness or not it has a lot of health, and people inside it that would likely pop out and shoot you full of holes. If it were a prestige class I wouldn't know what to do with half the concepts, some I haven't even put in or accurately protrayed yet. You say things are already broken but lower level abilities that are important to the design would need INCREASED in power to compensate, and since certain points are important to hit I feel like 10 levels would be really cluttered. I do base balance on existing material, I usually make things with the Cleric or sorcerer as a balance floor.
Yes, you can totally just give a character a metal arm and make them a cyborg. I wouldn't put it as 'wealth', but probably have a back story reason since honestly the cybernetic limb replacements give somewhat minor bonuses for the levels you'd afford them, and Shadowrun looked interesting at least, but I don't really have money laying around to by 40-50$ books and then try to convince the group to learn a whole new system, I know at least 3 of them wouldn't want to.
I have said multiple times, it's the rough draft of just ideas slapped onto a page, and repeatedly hearing "scrap it", "it's wrong" or similar things just makes me feel rather defencive because only an hour or not I like the concept, so I appologize for being argumentitive. I don't follow all design 'standards' no, but at the same time not all the standards are balanced in the first place. I find it easier to dial back than dial up anyway.
Instead of just negatives and going back and forth, how about this- You say you don't like the augments because they cheat the 'wealth system', but this is a world of technology, you would get tech. You couldn't likely just 'buy' a good number of things because I doubt governments would really just let people have such things, sure you could do black market but thats shady and expensive. So I had the idea that they get things from the group who did the operation to upgrade their body as they grow more accustomed to it and so the 'abilities' mirror some tech equipment instead of emulating spells or such, but if such a thing is really so bad, what would you put in it's place? Alternatively what would you do to bring them down, or what kind of traits might be more interesting to add in? I only left them as static because I ran out of ideas and even I'M not really satisfied with them as is.
Alright, I apologize again for being so argumentative on this, I haven't been feeling myself as of late :(
I thought about some of the suggestions, and while I do still like many of the idea of draft 1, I descided to attempt a ground floor redesign, and using martial maneuvers seemed like a fun way to portray the somewhat over the top levels of action, and finding a bunch onf interesting homebrew disciplines, I hammered out this second draft. Hopefully this feels more coherent than my oddly all over the place first draft.