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Defensive type characters have long been considered suboptimal. There's a good reason for this. Often these builds don't deal the necessary damage to be viable and often end up barely mobile bricks who find out there hyper focused defensive strategy isn't enough to keep them alive.
Or, in the case of Crane Wing builds you get nerfed. Sorry. :/
But, I put some thought into this. Is there still a good tactical advantage to playing a good high defensive character?
Well let's see.
1. Survivability - Survivable characters can do more. They can take more hits, eat more spells and good survivable characters can get through more fights. Endurance isn't often a problems as much as simple fight ending capacity.
2. Efficiency - It's weird but as a character that takes little damage you should expend very few resources. The trick, I think, is that people go overboard on one form of defense and fail to consider layering defenses atop one another so the investment is low enough for good offense to be added in.
3. Enemy Resource/Action Sink - An interesting thing about defenses is that when an enemy fails to penetrate them they produce an action advantage in that they completely negate the action in question. So, if you pass a save on a targeted spell, fail to take damage from an attack, or otherwise cause an opponents action to do nothing.
So there is a tactical incentive to go heavy on the defense. I just think actual thought needs to be put into it rather than relying on gimmicks.
With that being said let's get to work.
What good defensive character needs.
~Solid Saves. Two of the three saves need to be high enough to make most saves reasonably. The third can be weaker but still fair enough. Good saves make good survivability and in many cases can negate spells used on you. So the bestiary chart does give a fair number to base it off of so let's get a run down:
CR Minimum Saves
1 +6
2 +7
3 +8
4 +9
5 +9
6 +10
7 +11
8 +12
9 +13
10 +13
11 +14
12 +15
13 +16
14 +16
15 +17
16 +18
17 +19
18 +19
19 +21
20 +22
~ High AC. Ac represents the most common and useful line of defense against physical attacks. It's actually fairly easy to get really high. So not too much effort should be put into getting it high, but we do want to have at least around 50% miss chance on attacks against AC. We shouldn't need much more as we should have other means of covering defense.
CR Minimum AC
1 12
2 14
3 16
4 18
5 20
6 22
7 23
8 25
9 27
10 28
11 29
12 31
13 32
14 33
15 34
16 36
17 37
18 38
19 39
20 40
~Layered Defenses: Having passive defenses are great but we need more. If an enemy can bust our AC, he needs to deal with miss chances, if saves are not a problem for them they need to deal with immunities, if ranged enemies have true seeing to bust through the invisibility they need to get through Deflect Arrows. If we get hit we should be able to knock the damage off with DR or swift healing. That kind of stuff.
~Damage: Look, even if we become literally invulnerable it doesn't mean spit if we can't end the fight. It's unlikely we'll do support and while control is a possibility it might be best left to casters. I also don't expect Falchion Fred levels of consistent, constant damage. But, given the tools available there's no reason we can't get close. Arcane strike is easy to get, power attack works just fine on a one handed weapon, slashing grace allows us to make dex based builds more easily.
The Work
So let's get to it shall we. Based on the minimums above let's try to make defensive characters that can meet these standards.
~20pt buy.
~Paizo stuff.
~lvl is up to you.
~Be practical: The build should avoid too much silliness. i.e. I shouldn't hurt myself picking up all the books this one character takes. It shouldn't require GM approval (like a custom race out of the ARG). And shouldn't make people scratch their heads trying to visualize it.
~Multiclassing is okay but don't get crazy and again be practical. It shouldn't be a stretch for one class to progress into another. A barbarian segueing into fighter is reasonable. A wizard segueing neatly into brawler isn't a particularly natural occurrence.
~Don't rely on a magic item. If I can sunder one piece of equipment and ruin everything than the build was flimsy from the start. A defensive kind of character shouldn't come apart at the seams in terms of defense or damage if you do something as silly as lose your agile weapon.
~Be consistent. It's great that you can get a 25 AC and 50% miss chance at level 2. But if you can't maintain that through out the adventuring day it's all but useless. Active defenses either need to be plentiful or need only be used in situations where the extra defense is needed.
~Layer defenses. Just having high AC isn't enough as I discussed above. So have multiple ways to defend yourself. Miss chances, parries, etc. etc.
~Be useful. I think it shouldn't need to be said but pure defense is not the goal. Practical defense is what we need. A solid front from where we can safely do things like deal damage.
I'll start posting builds of what I've come up with later. Feel free to comment, post, or throw out your own ideas in the meantime.
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Sword and shield paladin with UMD for mirror image and the like? Has good saves, swift action self healing, smite helps AC, and can still do useful damage vs evil things.
there is also the consideration that a highly defensive character can often be passed by in favor of other targets, so how do you make your character more difficult for enemies to avoid or bypass?
in other words, how do you draw aggro in a system that is essentially devoid of an aggro mechanic (herp derp bermph antagonize token mention)
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Sword and shield paladin with UMD for mirror image and the like? Has good saves, swift action self healing, smite helps AC, and can still do useful damage vs evil things.
Actually my first attempt atm is a swashbuckler/paladin. But no UMD. Unsanctioned knowledge gets me mirror image and things of that nature just fine if late game.
I guess one of the easiest ways to make a great overall martial defender is to take the zen archer as a chassis - based on porpentine's guide. It basically has all the offensive abilities already built in and you can concentrate on defense with your feats and gear selection.
RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 32
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Sword and shield paladin with UMD for mirror image and the like? Has good saves, swift action self healing, smite helps AC, and can still do useful damage vs evil things.Actually my first attempt atm is a swashbuckler/paladin. But no UMD. Unsanctioned knowledge gets me mirror image and things of that nature just fine if late game.
I've actually got a PFS Dervish Dance Paladin (pre-ACG) that I've found has a decent offensive/defensive mix. I can post a general outline of her, and maybe a version where I mix in some Swashbuckler.
there is also the consideration that a highly defensive character can often be passed by in favor of other targets, so how do you make your character more difficult for enemies to avoid or bypass?
We don't. Or rather that's not the point.
Of course enemies will bypass us. But they might bypass us anyway if we're crazy pounce critters because going after someone else may be a hundred times more preferrable. If that's still a concern to you by all means go for it. More's the better. This is not me disparaging the idea just me pointing out that's more of a secondary concern.
That being said you can still force people to come after you by jumping on the softer elements of the opposing group yourself. We're still going for decent damage after all so leaving you to your own devices should be problematic for the opposing group.
ok
good luck
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Dwarf
Worship : Torag
Monk (Sensei) 2 Cleric (Divine Strategist) 6
Domain : Protection : Subdomain : Defense
Standing AC is only 20, Self buffed AC with a potion of mage armor is 33.
Saves : Fort 13, Ref 9, Will 17
Offensive caster. With the ability to use stunning fist with a charged spell on attacking hand. Personal favorite is stunning fist + bestow curse (50% chance of taking no action.)
The strongest option I've found for AC is a Halfling with Cautious Fighter and 3 ranks in Acrobatics. Fight defensively for +5 AC dodge bonus, +7 for Total Defense. As dodge bonuses, these would stack with anything else in your build, and it has no other prerequisites.
If your build qualifies for Crane Style, you can kick that up to +6 and +8 for only a -2 to your attack roll.
If not, take Exotic Weapon Proficiency in Madu to cut the attack roll penalty down to -2 and add +1 shield bonus to your AC.
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I might have a few characters laying around with a defensive focus.
Pouruchista: 20 bladebound kensai
- High AC
- High Touch AC
- High Saves
- Blur/Displacement/Greater Invisibility/Overland Flight
Cythraul Dig: 20 Fighter
- saves: reflex 3 pts low, will 1 pt low
- High AC
- Lockdown (Staggering/Stunning Criticals)
- Very difficult to target (radiates supernatural darkness).
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there is also the consideration that a highly defensive character can often be passed by in favor of other targets, so how do you make your character more difficult for enemies to avoid or bypass?
It only takes 1-3 feats to make running past a melee character either expensive or very difficult. For a character receiving fighter bonus feats, the cost is usually well worth it.
Paladin of Chaldra (halfling NG deity of battle, luck, and mischief). Go Temple Champion archetype and pick the trickery domain/blessing. Feel free to consider the Deception subdomain for teleporting behind a missed attack, since you'll still end up with the Trickery blessing for copycat.
Normal stats for this should roughly be (assuming human or comparable race and racial stat adjustment) at level 1:
Str 16-18
Dex 13 at best
Con 15
Int 7 at worst
Wis 7 at worst (this does worsen your will save, so let's try to avoid that outcome)
Cha 16
More rational, though not quite as "optimized" stats are as such:
Str 15-16
Dex 10-13 at best
Con 14
Int 10
Wis 10
Cha 16
In the event of going Halfling on this one, you will probably see the stats looking like this:
Str 14 (16 before the racial penalty)
Dex 12 (10 before racial bonus)
Con 14
Int 10
Wis 10
Cha 16 (14 before racial bonus)
Definitely go sword and board on this one, Toughness within the first 3 levels, and standard heavy ac packages apply. In the case of base Trickery domain/blessing, you would have a rough minimum 10 copycat uses by 5th level and baseline of 18 uses of it or a mixture of invisibility and copycat by 20th.
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RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 32
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F Human Paladin of Shelyn (Oathbound: Oath of Vengeance) 7
LG Medium humanoid
Stats:
Str 13 Dex 21 (16 + 2 Human + 2 Belt + 1 at level 4) Con 14
Int 7 Wis 7 Cha 18 (16 + 2 Headband)
Feats:
1 Weapon Finesse, Power Attack (Human)
3 Dervish Dance
5 Extra Lay on Hands
7 Amateur Swashbuckler (Deed: Opportune Parry and Riposte)
Defenses:
HP 67 (7d10 in PFS=10+36 + 14 Con + 7 FCB)
AC 23 (7 armor + 5 dex + 1 natural armor), 27 when smiting
Touch AC 15 (19 smite) FF AC 18 (22 smite)
Saves Fort 12 (5 base, 2 con, 1 cloak, 4 Divine Grace) Ref 12 (2 base, 5 dex, 1 cloak, 4 Divine Grace) Wil 8 (5 base, -2 wis, 1 cloak, 4 Divine Grace)
CMD 23 (27 smite)
Lay on Hands 3d6 9/day (Mercies: Sickened, Disease)
Divine Health
Aura of Courage
Offense:
Initiative +5
CMB +8
+1 Keen Scimitar (+13/+8 [+11/+6 Power Attack] 15-20/x2 1d6+6 [1d6+10 PA])
Smite: 3/day, +4 attack, +7 damage (+14 vs undead, dragons, evil outsiders)
Skills: Diplomacy +14 (7 ranks, 4 Cha, 3 trained)
Traits:
Fencer
Beneficent Touch (PFS Silver Crusade, 1/day re-roll all 1s when using healing ability/spell)
Relevant Gear: +1 Keen Scimitar, adamantine scimitar, +1 mithral breastplate, Cloak of resistance +1, Shining Wayfinder, Dex Belt +2, Cha Headband +2, Ring of Featherfall, Amulet of Natural Armor +1, Potion of Darkvision, +1 Holy Arrow(s), Wand of CLW, holy water
Build Comments: This is my Paladin, as she is now; not super optimized, I suppose, but I've gotten through 7 levels without dying! The thought behind Dervish Dance is to use Dex to get a more even split between touch and flat footed AC, and have a hand free for spells' somatic components and easier access to utility items (note the Potion of Darkvision in gear--I nearly died fighting a couple of babaus once, and I really don't want that to happen again!).
The AC looks about even with a CR=level encounter, and the saves are decent (the lower will save is a bit dangerous, but I'll get to that). When smiting, the AC can get up to appropriate levels for a CR 9 encounter (like a boss fight, which hopefully I can smite!). They can get even better for 1 minute if I use my Shining Wayfinder to cast Protection from Evil on myself. Immunity to fear and disease are also very nice. With my new opportune parry and riposte deed, I can hopefully deflect a good amount of incoming blows as well, and with my keen scimitar there's a good chance that I'll be getting the panache to do it. Combat Reflexes will most likely be my pick at level 9.
For those times when damage does get through, I have plenty of swift-action Lay on Hands to keep me going. My Beneficent Touch trait lets me re-roll healing rolls' 1s, which could be necessary. I'm also a fan of the spell Hero's Defiance, which can be used as an immediate action to use Lay on Hands with an extra d6 when I would fall unconscious. It's saved me more than once (see above mention of babaus).
The Oath of Vengeance Smite is interesting, because it comes out of the Lay on Hands pool. It's a great offensive tool, obviously, but also a decent defensive one with the AC boost from my high charisma. The Extra Lay on Hands feat in this build is also a potential "Extra Smite Evil" feat. Against lots of evil foes, this can keep your defenses up pretty well. Against not so many evil foes, you can rely on it more for healing. It can be a tricky balance, but the versatility seems nice. The other nice thing about Smite Evil is that if I become dominated (not the best Will save, so hopefully this wouldn't happen very often), my main offensive abilities don't work so well against my non-evil party members (of which there are exactly zero, since this is for PFS).
This build has a couple of weaknesses: It's only most effective against evil foes, but it does have ways of dealing with those situations (still has a sturdy full BAB chassis, does decent damage, can still parry). I can't do much against swarms, but nobody was expecting a melee martial to be good at that anyway. With the addition of Opportune Parry and Riposte, I've got a bit of a swift action glut: between smite evil, LoH, the riposte, and many of my favorite Paladin spells, I've got to choose wisely when using my swifties. There's also the issue of realistically making good tactical decisions with 7 Int and Wis; Meg is very friendly, though, and open to suggestions from her more tactically inclined party members on how to fight well!
Now, one final note on an interesting defensive ability: Diplomacy! I've maxed out my diplomacy by having max ranks and good charisma, nothing special, but that +14 is very handy. For a better chance of success, another favorite Paladin spell of mine is Honeyed Tongue, which lets me roll twice on diplomacy for 10 minutes/level. Not all confrontations have to come to blows; the most efficient combat is one that hasn't taken place at all! Certainly this isn't always an option, but in the very first scenario I actually played as Meg, I avoided the final boss fight with a very nice diplomacy roll, convincing the BBNG (See? Options for dealing with Neutral creatures!) to work for the Pathfinders and to free his slaves.
If I were to rebuild Meg, I might go Swashbuckler 1 / Paladin X, either taking the Dervish Dance route again or going for Slashing Grace. SG requires Weapon Focus, but it would also let me bump up my AC a bit more with a shield. With the paladin proficiencies, I think I might even be able to use a heavy shield? This would probably incorporate Combat Reflexes earlier.
I have been toying with an Elven Metal Oracle if you play around with your class bonus you can get her into mithral plate with a +6 to Dex bonus pretty easy and early. High dex keeps reflex high, metal lets you get bonuses to fortitude to shore up that angle. at level 11 you can use your move to get a 20% miss chance. With a defense slant on spells you can make yourself pretty resistant to most thing, still tweaking on maxing it out.
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My first pfs character is Cardigan, a crane wing monk....
Here is what he looks like around 8th level.
Monk 6(master of many styles, drunken master, monk of the sacred mountain).
Fighter 2 (Brawler).
He is devout and has the temple vanity. He's a healer (heal skill) so may dip levels in cleric or warpriest.
Feats
Dodge
Crane style
Archon style
Toughness
Archon diversion
Combat reflexes
Bodyguard
Endurance
Drunken Brawler
He had crane wing and crane riposte but....
He is taking fast drinker, diehard and combat style master.
traits
Adopted-halfing
Helpful
Fortified drinker
Special Abilities
Ki pool 7
Drunken Ki pool 2- swift action move 5 feet for 1 Ki.
Stunning fist 6x/day DC 18
Drunken Strength 1d6- can be applied after the attack hits.
Bastion Stance- if start and end turn in same square, can't be moved.
Iron Limb Defenses- if start and end turn in same square +2 shield ac. Swift action Ki +4 shield bonus.
91 HP
27 ac, ff23, touch 22. Stationary with Ki ac +6). Crane style +4. Max ac: 37. Max touch 30.
Cmd: 30 (+2 vs grapple, +1 vs bull rush drag & reposition)
Attacks +8/+3 1d8+2
Shortlist gear
Jingasa
Tengu Drinking Jug (soon to be replaced with drinking horn of bottomless valor).
Cardigan effectively has unlimited HP due to having unlimited amounts of alcohol from the soon to be acquired drinking horn. When he drinks he can do so as a swift instead of standard action, gains a +2 alchemical bonus to will and fort saves, a +2 trait bonus vs mind effects, temporary HP equal to his character level and a -2 cumulative penalty to his ref save (for an hour) and restores a point of drunken ki. He doesn't hit often or hurt that much when he does but he prevents allies from being hit, takes their attacks on himself when they would be hit and grants a single ally an aoo for him making the bad guy miss them. With the loss of crane wings usefulness He may just take the last archon style feat, giving every adjacent ally an aoo for him making the boss miss an ally. I was new to pathfinder so he used a shortspear. Due to gm table variation, he'd just use a long spear and aid with reach ending that problem. This keeps him away from the boss unless necessary while still keeping allies safe and taking hits when needed.
He's not super optimized but he is/was stupidly hard to kill and loads of fun to play.
At monk 7, he gets infinite healing. And there is the thought to racial heritage into halflings and grab the feats for them like blundering defense, etc. Would fit perfectly.
PS. Anyone have ideas on feats that can replace crane wings function?
I actually think that Urban Barbarian/Invulnerable Rager is best for achieving this sort of build. Basic reasoning behind this is that Rage, 18 STR, Power Attack and a two handed weapon is enough Offense while superstition, Beast Totem and Damage Resistance give you awesome defense. You'll want to be a half orc for the silly +2 Bonus to all saves trick and the free Endurance Feat. Also while cheesy you can get the human FCB to superstition which means your saves will be rock solid.
Defense or better layered defenses come from a one level dip into monk (likely Sohei) which opens up Crane Style which plays into Stalwart. Also you can flurry with a Sansetsukon which incidentally also improves your AC bonus from Crane Style. In order to pull this combo off you need to take the Adopted trait and choose the Enlightened Warrior Aasimar Trait. If this is too cheesy for you you can go with the Martial Artist Archetype but you will have to pass up on Flurry to do so.Here's what I was thinking of for a PFS build.
Ability Scores
STR 18
DEX 14
CON 14
INT 10
WIS 12
CHA 7
Traits:
Adopted: Enlightend Warrior
Fate's Favored
Racial trait
Shaman's Apprentice
Sacred Tatoo
Favored Class Barbarian: Goes into Superstition
Feats/Rage Powers
Barb 1 Endurance/ Die Hard
Monk 1 Dodge
Barb 2 Crane Style/ Superstition
Barb 3
Barb 4 Stalwart/Reckless Abandon
Barb 5
Barb 6 PA Lesser Beast toteam
Barb 7
Barb 8 Extra DR Beast Totem
Barb 9
Barb 10 Greater Stalwart Extra DR
Notable Equipment:
+x Furious Sansetsukon
+X Breastplate (Make it Mithral if you want to Flurry with Sohei)
Jingasa of the Fortunate Soldier
Level 5 without Magic
Attack: Sansetsukon +10 1d10+9
HP:48 AC 18 (10+DEX+Breastplate+Dodge+Sansetsukon-Reckless Abandon) DR: 6
WIL: +6 FORT:+9 REF:+7 +4 Superstition
Assuming a Jingasa and +1 Armor Enhancement as wellas a +1 cloak of resistance this char easily passes all hurdles at level 5. Without PA damage output isn't the greatest at this level however.
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Idea I've been playing with for a PFS legal wayang bladebound kensai 9/mouser 1
Unnamed Hero
Male wayang magus (bladebound, kensai) 9/swashbuckler (mouser) 1
N Small humanoid (wayang)
Init +11; Senses darkvision 60 ft.; Perception +20
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Defense
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AC 30, touch 25, flat-footed 19 (+4 armor, +6 Dex, +1 size, +1 natural, +1 deflection, +5 dodge, +1 insight)
hp 83 (1d10+9d8+29)
Fort +11, Ref +14, Will +11; +2 vs. shadow spells
Defensive Abilities canny defense
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Offense
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Speed 20 ft.
Melee +3 black blade (katana) +18/+13 (1d6+14/18-20+10 Precision) or
+5 keen black blade (katana) +18/+13 (1d6+16/15-20+10 Precision)
Special Attacks deed: opportune parry and riposte, deed: precise strike, panache, spellstrike
Magus (Bladebound, Kensai) Spells Prepared (CL 9th; concentration +13):
. . 3rd—displacement, haste, vampiric touch
. . 2nd—bladed dash, blur, glitterdust (DC 16), mirror image
. . 1st—long arm, shield, shocking grasp (2), vanish (DC 15)
. . 0 (at will)—detect magic, mage hand, read magic, touch of fatigue (DC 14)
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Statistics
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Str 10, Dex 22, Con 14, Int 18, Wis 14, Cha 10
Base Atk +7; CMB +6; CMD 30
Feats Arcane Strike, Blind-fight, Dodge, Extra Arcana[UM], Slashing Strike[ACG], Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus (katana), Weapon Specialization (katana)
Traits tomb raider, two-world magic
Skills Acrobatics +12, Bluff +4, Climb +4, Diplomacy +13, Fly +12, Knowledge (arcana) +13, Knowledge (dungeoneering) +13, Knowledge (local) +8, Knowledge (planes) +16, Perception +20, Sense Motive +6, Sleight of Hand +10, Spellcraft +9, Stealth +22, Survival +2 (+4 to avoid becoming lost), Swim +4; Racial Modifiers +2 Perception, +2 Stealth, deed: derring-do
Languages Abyssal, Common, Nagaji, Osiriani, Ancient, Shadowtongue, Wayang
SQ arcane pool, black blade, black blade: arcane pool, black blade: energy attunement, black blade: strike, black blade: telepathy, black blade: teleport blade, black blade: unbreakable, chosen weapon, critical perfection, deed: dodging panache, deed: underfoot assault, iaijutsu, spell combat, light and dark, magus arcana (arcane deed, flamboyant arcana), perfect strike, shadow magic, swashbuckler finesse
Combat Gear jingasa of the fortunate soldier; Other Gear +3 silken ceremonial armor, +3 katana, amulet of natural armor +1, belt of incredible dexterity +4, cloak of resistance +3, headband of vast intelligence +2, dusty rose prism ioun stone, cracked dusty rose prism ioun stone, incandescent blue sphere ioun stone, ring of protection +1, wayfinder, 820 gp
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Special Abilities
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Arcane Pool +3 (7/day) (Su) Infuse own power into a held weapon, granting enhancement bonus or selected item powers.
Arcane Strike As a swift action, add +1 damage, +1 per 5 caster levels and your weapons are treated as magic for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction.
Black Blade (Ex) You gain an intelligent bonded weapon whose power grows with your own.
Black Blade: Arcane Pool (3/day) (Su) The Black Blade has an Arcane Pool used to fuel its own abilities.
Black Blade: Energy Attunement (Su) Replace weapon dam with fire/cold/elec for 1 point, or sonic/force for 2 points.
Black Blade: Strike +3 (Sp) The Black Blade can grant itself a damage bonus for 1 min.
Black Blade: Telepathy (Su) The magus can telepathically communicate with his black blade if it is worn or held.
Black Blade: Teleport Blade (Sp) Spend 1 point from own or blades pool to teleport it into hand.
Black Blade: Unbreakable (Ex) The Black Blade is immune to the broken condition while the arcane pool is not empty.
Blind-Fight Re-roll misses because of concealment, other benefits.
Canny Defense +4 (Ex) +INT bonus to AC (max Kensai level).
Chosen Weapon (Katana) Kensai abilities only function when wielding a weapon of this type.
Critical Perfection +4 (Ex) Bonus to confirm threats & qualify early for critical feats with chosen weapon.
Darkvision (60 feet) You can see in the dark (black and white vision only).
Deed: Derring-Do (+6 extra dice) (Ex) Use 1 panache, +1d6 to Escape Artist, Fly, Ride, or Swim check. On a 6, roll another die.
Deed: Dodging Panache (Ex) As an imm action when attacked, use 1 panache to move 5 ft. and gain +0 to AC vs. attack.
Deed: Opportune Parry and Riposte (Ex) 1 panache and 1 AoO to attempt to parry a melee attack, then counterattack.
Deed: Precise Strike +10 (Ex) While 1 panache, bonus to att/dam with light/one-hand piercing weapon.
Deed: Underfoot Assault (Ex) Use 1 panache as imm act when adj foe misses, enter foe's space for bonuses.
Flamboyant Arcana (Ex) Gain a selection of deeds, and can use arcane pool in place of panache for them.
Iaijutsu (Ex) May draw chosen weapon and make attacks of opportunity when flat footed.
Improved Spell Combat (Ex) Use a weapon with one hand at -2 and cast a spell with the other.
Jingasa of the fortunate soldier (1/day) Activate to negate a critical hit or sneak attack as an immediate action.
Light and Dark (1/day) (Su) As an imm action, treat positive/negative energy as if undead for 1 min.
Panache (Ex) Gain a pool of points that are spent to fuel deeds, regained on light/piercing crit/killing blow.
Perfect Strike (Ex) Use 1 arcane pool to maximize weapon dam, or 2 for +1 to crit multiplier.
Shadow Magic (Ex) Wayangs add +1 to the DC of any saving throws against spells of the shadow subschool that they cast.
Shadow Resistance +2 on saves vs shadow spells.
Slashing Strike (Katana) Treat chosen weapon as one-handed piercing weapon for abilities that require it.
Spellstrike (Su) Deliver touch spells as part of a melee attack.
Swashbuckler Finesse At 1st level, a swashbuckler gains the benefits of the Weapon Finesse feat with light or one-handed piercing melee weapons, and she can use her Charisma score in place of Intelligence as a prerequisite for combat feats. This ability counts as having
Two-World Magic (Touch of Fatigue, Magus [Bladebound, Kensai]) Add a 0-level spell from another class to your spell list.
Wayfinder (1 @ 0 lbs) A small magical device patterned off ancient relics of the Azlanti, a wayfinder is typically made from silver and bears gold accents. With a command word, you can use a wayfinder to shine (as the light spell). The wayfinder also acts as a nonmagical (magnetic) compass, granting you a +2 circumstance bonus on Survival checks to avoid becoming lost. All wayfinders include a small indentation designed to hold a single ioun stone. An ioun stone slotted in this manner grants you its normal benefits (as if it were orbiting your head), but frequently reveals entirely new powers due to the magic of the wayfinder itself (see Seeker of Secrets page 51).
Note: This item costs only 250 gp for members of the Pathfinder Society
Construction
Requirements Craft Wondrous Item, light; Cost 250 gp
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The Barbarian tank I've posted in the past is one of the best defensive characters I've ever seen - sky-high saves due to Human + Superstition and lots of hit points. Sub-optimal AC but he makes up with it by having a very, very high DR. One level of Unbreakable Fighter for the pre-req's then stacking Invulnerable Rager with Improved Stalwart and three instances of Increased DR. DR 13/- at 12th, 16/- at 15th and 20/- at 18th says it all.
The other outstanding defensive character I've built that still retains awesome offensive potential is my Goblin Brawler (Fighter archetype) with a 2 level dip in MOMS. Crane Style still grants an incredibly high AC and Snake Style gives tons of AoO's to compliment 6-7 attacks per round. I've recently worked in Pummeling Style so as good as his defense is, his best defense is still killing things very quickly.
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So I went to look at this as a baseline as I play around with a Kensai option here and... I'm not sure where on earth the stats on this character came from, but I'd love to. Because 11/20/14/19/10/12 (+1 Int, +4 Dex at level up) is like a 40 point buy.I might have a few characters laying around with a defensive focus.
Pouruchista: 20 bladebound kensai
- High AC
- High Touch AC
- High Saves
- Blur/Displacement/Greater Invisibility/Overland Flight
20pt buy with magic items and level increases. I left the Tome of Clear Thought and the Manuel of Quickness in the inventory to track their usage and WBL spent. They provide inherent bonuses that are not typically seen until high level.
Level 1
Level 4
Level 8
Level 12
Level 16
I should update her to include new material from the ACG, but I am waiting for the upcoming round of FAQ's to clear.
There's a lot to go over here and some of it looks rather promising. I'm exhausterd from planting evil thorny bushes under the windows of my new home so I'll take the time to look at this later. But some of this looks rather encouraging.
I've been toying with the idea of Magus/Swashbuckler. Taken to level 12 it would probably look like Magus 7/Swashbuckler 5. Be dex/int focused with the Inspired Blade archetype and either a the default magus or possibly a Kensai.
Good reflex from the Swashbuckler, Good fort and will from the Magus.
Layered defenses come from Parries + Magus spells.
A +3 weapon enhanced with the Magus Arcane pool means DR shouldn't be a problem. Precise Strike coming from both sides of the class (take the Swashbuckler arcanas) means your damage doesn't fall behind.
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The barbarian builds all listed seem to be exact copies of the 'standard barbarian. Superstition, invulnerable rager, two handed weapon, etc. Admittedly, those options are super hard to pass up. But I must ask, for sake of breaking the monotany- are there any other barbarian builds that can tank without using all of the exact same rage powers, stats and feats and race combo's?
I don't mean to offend. I know the class is just super nice due to the Dr. But there was so little variation in what was listed although in this thread or another someone mentioned an approach my own barbarian uses:
Lesser celestial totem + fast healer trait.
My barbarian tank is a whip + spiked shield user with combat expertise who disarms and trips from a distance. When enemies get close he ground stomps to knock prone and render the ground difficult terrain. He has the fast healer feat (and possibly godless healing) so he can self heal and heals half con mod in HP whenever he heals from most sources. He has lesser celestial totem to give him cl or character level as bonus hp healed from any source. He then has renewed vigor and regenerative vigor so once a day he can heal about 3d8+con and 1/2 then gain fast healing 1+half con mod until the rage ends. This is reserved for tough battles or boss fights and generally when at around -20 or lower.
Oh yeah, he can fight to -30 before dying and can burn an immediate action to reduce the damage from anything requiring an attack roll by an amount equal to his con mod by spending a round of rage or more as needed thanks to ferocious tenacity. He also is a deathless initiate with high Dr so he becomes more lethal as he becomes more critically injured.
All of this combined sounds like a nuisance for enemies to ignore and yet he can fight indefinately due to the focus on con over Str and the Dr and high hp and healing and negative HP score, etc..his ac for a barbarian is pretty good, too, thanks to the shield.
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You can have excellent DPR and still have good defense. You can also hyper optimize defense, and have good DPR. I think those with really good defense, but poor DPR make the same mistake as people with glass cannons. They failed to find the balance.
I like using dwarves along with steel soul and or another saving feat to shore up saves.
People like to say fighters have poor will saves. I like to say "your fighter" has poor will saves. I am not likely to match a druid or cleric, but that is still different than needing a 15 to not fail.
Enough of my talking. Level 7 dwarven fighter will be in the spoilers when I press submit
Unnamed Hero
Dwarf fighter 7
NG Medium humanoid (dwarf)
Init +8; Senses darkvision 60 ft.; Perception +2
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Defense
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AC 24, touch 13, flat-footed 22 (+10 armor, +2 Dex, +1 natural, +1 deflection)
hp 74 (7d10+28)
Fort +10, Ref +8, Will +7 (+2 vs. fear); +2 vs. poison, +4 vs. spells and spell-like abilities
Defensive Abilities bravery +2, defensive training (+4 dodge bonus to AC vs. giants)
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Offense
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Speed 20 ft.
Melee +2 guisarme +14/+9 (2d4+9/×3)
power attack +2 guisarme +12/+7 (2d4+15/×3)
Special Attacks +1 on attack rolls against goblinoid and orc humanoids, weapon training (pole arms +1)
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Statistics
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Str 18, Dex 14, Con 16, Int 10, Wis 14, Cha 8
Base Atk +7; CMB +11; CMD 24 (28 vs. bull rush, 28 vs. trip)
Feats Blind-fight, Combat Reflexes, Improved Initiative, Lightning Reflexes, Power Attack, Steel Soul[APG], Weapon Focus (glaive-guisarme), Weapon Specialization (glaive-guisarme)
Traits indomitable faith, reactionary
Skills Appraise +0 (+2 to determine the price of nonmagic items with precious metals or gemstones), Perception +2 (+4 to notice unusual stonework)
Languages Common, Dwarven
SQ armor training 2
Other Gear +1 full plate, +2 guisarme, amulet of natural armor +1, belt of giant strength +2, cloak of resistance +2, ring of protection +1, 541 gp
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Special Abilities
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Blind-Fight Re-roll misses because of concealment, other benefits.
Bravery +2 (Ex) +2 to Will save vs. Fear
Combat Reflexes (3 AoO/round) Can make extra attacks of opportunity/rd, and even when flat-footed.
Darkvision (60 feet) You can see in the dark (black and white vision only).
Defensive Training +4 Gain a dodge bonus to AC vs monsters of the Giant subtype.
Hatred +1 Gain a racial bonus to attacks vs Goblinoids/Orcs.
Power Attack -2/+4 You can subtract from your attack roll to add to your damage.
Steel Soul Hardy's save vs. spells and spell-like abilities becomes +4
Weapon Training (Pole Arms) +1 (Ex) +1 Attack, Damage, CMB, CMD with Pole Arms
Short version
Init +8
HP 74
AC 24
saves
Fort +10, Ref +8, Will +7
That means I have at least a 50% chance even on the weak saves to pass.
In addition there is a +2 vs poison and fear.
And a +4 vs spells and SLA's, which is where most saves come from anyway. That is about a 35% chance to fail against spells of CR =APL monsters.
Not great, but you wont have to worry about the fighter turning around and cleaving the wizard in half due to confusion or dominate.
I did this in about 5 minutes, and I was not trying to make a super defensive character, but with a little effort you can shore up a weak save.
There is no reason to be level 7 with a +3 save. <----Just an example from a real game.
I almost forgot the character also has blindfight to lessen the pain of invisible opponents.
The barbarian builds all listed seem to be exact copies of the 'standard barbarian. Superstition, invulnerable rager, two handed weapon, etc. Admittedly, those options are super hard to pass up. But I must ask, for sake of breaking the monotany- are there any other barbarian builds that can tank without using all of the exact same rage powers, stats and feats and race combo's?
I don't mean to offend. I know the class is just super nice due to the Dr. But there was so little variation in what was listed although in this thread or another someone mentioned an approach my own barbarian uses:
Lesser celestial totem + fast healer trait.
My barbarian tank is a whip + spiked shield user with combat expertise who disarms and trips from a distance. When enemies get close he ground stomps to knock prone and render the ground difficult terrain. He has the fast healer feat (and possibly godless healing) so he can self heal and heals half con mod in HP whenever he heals from most sources. He has lesser celestial totem to give him cl or character level as bonus hp healed from any source. He then has renewed vigor and regenerative vigor so once a day he can heal about 3d8+con and 1/2 then gain fast healing 1+half con mod until the rage ends. This is reserved for tough battles or boss fights and generally when at around -20 or lower.
Oh yeah, he can fight to -30 before dying and can burn an immediate action to reduce the damage from anything requiring an attack roll by an amount equal to his con mod by spending a round of rage or more as needed thanks to ferocious tenacity. He also is a deathless initiate with high Dr so he becomes more lethal as he becomes more critically injured.
All of this combined sounds like a nuisance for enemies to ignore and yet he can fight indefinately due to the focus on con over Str and the Dr and high hp and healing and negative HP score, etc..his ac for a barbarian is pretty good, too, thanks to the shield.
The thing with superstition is that it is a prereq to other nice things such as spell sunder, which you can use to free yourself from a spell affect.
I prefer just going dwarf, and then you don't really need superstition. The saves will still be high enough to be relevant, and your offense won't suffer.
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Yeah, but there are a core of about 4-6 rage powers that get cycled between every barbarian build and I just wish I could see something......different. When I see the same two races followed by the same two archetypes being combined and then the same feats, weapon types and rage powers I just sort of zombie up and my brain goes to mush. I don't mind seeing similarity or a few copies but honestly, I haven't seen any deviation on this in a while. I am at the point where I see the words barb + invulnerable eager and I skim at best because I can expect not just a certain skeleton (crane wing or combat expertise and stalwart) but I can expect it to be almost the exact same (and in too many cases the actual exact same) build as the last 9 I have seen.....oye.
But again, the same handful of rage powers being picked over, and over, and over and over and over and over again, are really quite good. I want them myself. I am just at the point where I intentionally try to pick anything that isn't them so I can get into exploring possibilities. Though, one or two of those powers is fine and would come in handy.
But again, the same handful of rage powers being picked over, and over, and over and over and over and over again, are really quite good. I want them myself. I am just at the point where I intentionally try to pick anything that isn't them so I can get into exploring possibilities. Though, one or two of those powers is fine and would come in handy.
Seems like a good indicator that someone is on to something here...likewise try building a Dwarf without Steel Soul and Glory of Old or worse a divine char without Fate's Favored...
I have not used glory of old yet, and if I can probably get by with iron will instead of steel soul, but steel soul is better to me so I go with that.
edit: to be honest I did not know about glory of old until now.
A really easy high defense Melee char is a Sword and Board Paladin with the Fey Touched feat and a Single level of Holy Vindicator for the Vindicator Shield ability
Inquisitor and Magus can maks really good defensive character.
The inquisitor goes with Med Armor, Weapon and Shield and Judgement to AC, layer a Steel Soul/Glory of Old Dwarf for Mega saves.
The Elf magus, is pretty awesome cause of Good saves, Moonlight Stalker+Blur, Shield spell and the arcana that grants Derring Do and Riposte.
Neither build has to sacrifice offense.
I wonder how a Dervish Of Dawn bard (maybe with a 2 level dip in paladin) and the Dance of the 23 steps masterpiece plus combat expertise stacks up. That would have high AC (including touch AC), swift action heals, and good saves. Offence wouldn't be as good as pure paladin mind you.
Because having two pools in which to draw abilities from makes them way easier to use assuming you do more then 1 encounter a day. Going 5 levels of swashbuckler also grants 4 feats along with other deeds. Weapon Focus, Weapon Finesse, Improved Critical, and a bonus one. Daring-do might suck but menacing swordplay, kip up and others are still pretty good. Plus +1 AC, +1 hit, +2 damage.
A BBEG in a scenario I'm writing...
Half Elf, Ancestral Arms for 9 section whip
8th level Monk (Sensei, Ki Mystic)
Full Crane Style, Deflect Arrows
Fights defensively, and inspires his minions to do the dirty work.
As a ki mystic, allows his allies a reroll on attack rolls and saving throws.
Can we get a full build?
I sort of question his damage.
Dwarf
Worship : Torag
Monk (Sensei) 2 Cleric (Divine Strategist) 6
Domain : Protection : Subdomain : Defense
Standing AC is only 20, Self buffed AC with a potion of mage armor is 33.
Saves : Fort 13, Ref 9, Will 17
Offensive caster. With the ability to use stunning fist with a charged spell on attacking hand. Personal favorite is stunning fist + bestow curse (50% chance of taking no action.)
Ehhhh, can we see the full character? Really the potion of mage armor kills it for me.
@Artanthos. I really like the magus. Definitely look forward to the update. Though I wonder what the fighter rides.
Paladin of Chaldra (halfling NG deity of battle, luck, and mischief). Go Temple Champion archetype and pick the trickery domain/blessing. Feel free to consider the Deception subdomain for teleporting behind a missed attack, since you'll still end up with the Trickery blessing for copycat.
Normal stats for this should roughly be (assuming human or comparable race and racial stat adjustment) at level 1:
Str 16-18
Dex 13 at best
Con 15
Int 7 at worst
Wis 7 at worst (this does worsen your will save, so let's try to avoid that outcome)
Cha 16More rational, though not quite as "optimized" stats are as such:
Str 15-16
Dex 10-13 at best
Con 14
Int 10
Wis 10
Cha 16In the event of going Halfling on this one, you will probably see the stats looking like this:
Str 14 (16 before the racial penalty)
Dex 12 (10 before racial bonus)
Con 14
Int 10
Wis 10
Cha 16 (14 before racial bonus)Definitely go sword and board on this one, Toughness within the first 3 levels, and standard heavy ac packages apply. In the case of base Trickery domain/blessing, you would have a rough minimum 10 copycat uses by 5th level and baseline of 18 uses of it or a mixture of invisibility and copycat by 20th.
Couple of things. I would just dump int and not look back.
Also the damage output on this looks terrible. I think going Half Orc and taking sacred tattoo will help a lot to improve your damage and keep good saves.
@mechaPoet. This is pretty much hat I've been doing but I went with a swashbuckler dip and slashing grace. I would not have dumped wisdom so hard and may have considered higher Int as well since Unsanctioned knowledge is really quite handy if you can get a headband to boost it up to 13.
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No reason not to question his damage, Tark. He's a buffer, not a DPR guy. Although, as a Ki Mystic and Qinggong (forgot to mention earlier), add Scorching Ray for some extra offense and Barkskin for extra defense. But all in all, he's a team player.
Also, I haven't done a statted out build, just his feat selections.
Well, let's try the Warpriest for a spin then. Charisma is thankfully a complete dump stat, and our primary cast stat is tied into one of our good saves. We'll go with a worshiper of Calistria, since the Luck and Trickery blessings do a lot for us. Luck due more to the major blessing of forced rerolls on enemy attacks, take lowest result. And Trickery for the previously mentioned reason of Copycat.
To be totally honest, we aren't going to use a whip with this build. So we let the 1st level bonus Weapon Focus go to whatever our primary melee weapon will be. Sword, spear, hammer, whatever. We are probably going to use some shields because Warpriest gives us more feats anyway, which allows some flexibility on how we build.
Assuming human, because extra skill rank and feat can make up for additional dumping.
Str 18 with racial bonus here
Dex 12
Con 14
Int 10
Wis 15
Cha 7
If we dump both Int and Cha and slightly dip Dex, we end up with this:
Str 20 with racial bonus
Dex 9
Con 14
Int 7
Wis 15
Cha 7
This array leaves our touch AC at unacceptable levels, as well as gives penalties on our Reflex saves. But it maximizes damage with some ability to tank and resist mind affecting things. Just expect a hard slog in early levels when you have the most frequent issues with Reflex saves. You could make the Dex be back at 10 by making Strength be a 19 max with Wisdom going to 16.
Now assuming Dwarf and only dumping Charisma, we can get:
Str 17 at base
Dex 11
Con 16 with racial bonus
Int 10
Wis 16 with racial bonus
Cha 5 with racial penalty
This array isn't bad, actually. It maximized more of the tanking aspect with the Con, so you could instead have a 14 Con with a Dex of 10 and get 18 Strength. Hmm, might have to actually try this one myself.
I'll take a more detailed look at the others later. For now let me get this out of the way so I can get it out of my ntoebook.
Azata Blooded Aasimar Swashbuckler 1/Paladin 19
Str 12+1
Dex 16+2+1+1=20
Con 14
Int 7
Wis 12
Cha 14+2+1+1=18
Feats:
1 Weapon Focus (Scimitar)
3 Slashing Grace
5 Arcane Strike
7 Combat Reflexes
9 Shield Focus
11 Missile Shield
13 Signature Deed (Parry and Riposte)
15 Power Attack
17 Unsanctioned Knowledge assuming +6 int headband by now (1:Timely Inspiration 2: Heroism 3:Blink 4: Freedom of Movement)
19 Extra Lay on Hands
Traits
Fate's Favored (increases AC from jingasa of the soldier, luckstone stuff adn what not)
Don't have a good idea for the second one.
Okie dokie. So with normal expected items we can start with 20-21 ac at level 1 carrying us for quite a while.
By level 20 this build will have an AC closer to 43 with the potential to buff it to 46+. Blink, parrying, and missile shield provides us with additional physical defenses. Paladin immunities +freedom of movement+heroism+timely inspiration means we'll rarely fail a saving throw particularly if we have the money for Guardian armor spikes. That's late game.
So, I think for one I think I need to get more damage.
I'll explain a bit more and try to address more posts when I get up later in the morning.
Action economy is also a slight concern. I can't arcane strike on rounds I need to lay on hands or immediately after riposteing. I should parry every opportunity I can where I know an attack hits. I have a very high dex.
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Reac
Halfling super Bruiser. Always fighting defensivly (already calculated into ac) and bonuses on saves depending on what spells cast.
Level 10 build, with lvl by lvl feats.
starting buy:
STR: 9 DEX: 19 CON: 14 INT: 12 WIS: 13 CHA: 9
Lvl 4: Dex
Lvl 8: Wis
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The best thing with a high AC is that you can just ignore AoOs. Which means that all those actions that provoke suddenly become good options rather than things to be avoided at all costs.
This completely puts traditional build-wisdom and combat tactics upside-down. In particular, it allows you to avoid many taxes built for just such cases.
When the other guy just cannot hit you, you do not need Combat Casting, or Acrobatics, or Point Blank Master.
When you are mostly invulnerable, you just need to be able to move and reach the story device that means WIN.
Sadly, MANY scenarios are actually build on the premise that you absolutely need to kill/incapacitate some BBEG to actually win :-(
So, the most important thing with an invulnerable build is to still be able to inflict damage and/or conditions on your enemy.
The best thing with a high AC is that you can just ignore AoOs. Which means that all those actions that provoke suddenly become good options rather than things to be avoided at all costs.
This completely puts traditional build-wisdom and combat tactics upside-down. In particular, it allows you to avoid many taxes built for just such cases.
This! Personally I like to combine this with the lore-warden (or foehammer if you'd like steel soul) bonuses to manuevers and go to town, particularly potent with a few buffs on hand to boost CMB (say, enlarge, heroism, or even bless).
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There isn't enough love for cavaliers in this thread.
Honour Guard Archetype
Strength 18
Dexterity 14
Constitution 14
Intelligence 10
Wisdom 12
Charisma 8
Alternate racial traits: Sacred Tattoo
traits: Fortunes favored, Adopted: Helpful Halfling
Lvl 1 Feat: Power Attack
Tactician: Paired Opportunists
Lvl 2
Lvl 3 Feat: Combat Reflexes, Bodyguard (honour guard bonus)
Lvl 4
Lvl 5 Feat: hurtful
Lvl 6 Bonus Feat: Cornugon Smash
Level 7: Intimidating prowess
Level 8 (sword bonus)- Mounted combat
Gear
Jingasa of the Fortunate Soldier
+1 Benevolent Full Plate
+1 Benevolent Chain Shirt Barding (large)
+2 cloak of Resistance
+2 Greatsword
Ring of Protection +1
Amulet of Natural armour +1
Belt of strength +2
HP:61 25 AC Fort: +12 Ref: +8 Will: +9
Companion: Heavy warhorse (Bodyguard)
Feats:Bodyguard
Combat Reflexes
Additional Traits: Adopted:Helpful Halfling, Indomitable Faith
In Harms Way
So, how it works. Good saves thanks to Order of the Sword bonus to will saves, and synergy with Sacred Tattoo and Fates Favoured and banner. Good AC because of heavy armour and jingasa + fates favoured. But the meat of the build is the synergy between the mount and cavalier. For the first four attacks per round against the cavalier, the mount adds 5 to his riders AC. If he still gets hit, the mount takes it with In Harms Way, and the damage is annulled with the cavaliers Mounted combat.
When the monster gets bored and tries to kill his team mates, the Cavalier and warhorse give their adjacent friends +11 to AC versus attacks.
He also debuffs enemies saves and attacks passively by inflicting shaken as a free action on his attacks with Cornugon Smash, which gives him a free swift action attack for free every round at max AB, greatly increasing his damage.
On top of all this he is still a high strength two hander with power attack, challenge and order of the sword/banner bonuses to hit, a massive threat enemies need to deal with.
Diviner wizard 1/Fighter 1/EK 10/wiz+8 Use spells for AC & miss chance.
I must admit to playing with backwards compitability from time to time. In this case, DW1/F1/EK4/Abjurant Champion 5/EK+6. Excellent defense on that one.
I decided to resurrect this seeing as their is some decent debate in another thread about defensive minded characters.