Flying, Carrying Capacity, and my Familiar

[waterwashesstuff]

If I outfitted an Owl or Hawk familiar (Str 6) with a Heavyload belt (+8 STR for carrying purposes) and Muleback Cords (x3 Carrying Capacity, could be obtained by taking Extra Slot feat for familiar), could I conceivably give the familiar a high enough carrying capacity to literally carry my Wizard around in battle?

"Flying mounts can’t fly in medium or heavy barding."

"A medium or heavy load counts as medium or heavy armor for the purpose of abilities or skills that are restricted by armor."

These are the only two things I could find in the core rulebook that reference flight and encumbrance.

If I understand this correctly, by adding the two magic items I could give an Owl or Hawk familiar an 87/174/262 carrying capacity -- within the limits to carry around my 140 lb wizard and his light load of gear.

6 STR+8 STR=14 STR from the Heavyload belt
14 STR capacity * .5 for tiny size
x3 capacity for the Muleback cords.

If I fit my Wizard with a flying/climbing harness, is it viable within weight rules to have my Owl swoop in and fly (carry) me around the battlefield, or am I overlooking something? Are there existent rules to handle this kind of potential "Carried by another" scenario? How does this work?!

[Splendor]

Heavyload belt: Is x3 carrying
Muleback Cords: Is +8 STR for carry

Max load for a tiny 14 str is 87.5lbs x3 for ant haul is 262.5
A harness could be rigged up (say 10lbs), character weight 150lbs, equipment 35lbs would be 195lbs.

That would put the owl at a medium load.

Quote:

A medium or heavy load counts as medium or heavy armor for the purpose of abilities or skills that are restricted by armor.

So the owl would have a max dex of +3 and a -3 ACP, movement would also be reduced to 40.

The owl has a +7 fly normally -3 ACP gives it a +4 fly. And a DM could argue that since its carrying a medium creature that its now a medium creature. This would reduce the Fly skill to +0.

The flying skill DC's start at 10. Unfavorable conditions (like someone shooting at you) could add +2 to those checks. The animal would have to make a check often (maybe every round). If it fails a check it falls (so do you), both you and your owl would take d6 damage for every 10' you fell. If your owl is shot out of the air, you fall.
Also keep in mind that you jerking around in the seat attacking creatures may make your Owl have to make STR checks to hold onto your harness.
--Make sure you keep Feather Fall memorized.

[Bob Bob Bob]

So you reversed what the muleback cords and heavyload belt does, but that's relatively irrelevant for this. The short answer is "not unless you're a halfing/gnome/other small race". The long answer is that you already did the math and drew the wrong conclusion.

Your owl can't fly in medium+ armor, and a medium+ load counts as medium+ armor. So your owl can only fly if it's carrying a light load. A light load is 87 lbs or under. Your 140 lb wizard immediately bumps him up to medium load, medium armor, and unable to fly.

[LazarX]

How the hell is an owl going to be able to fly if his wings are being held back supporting muleback cords? They are shoulder mount items, which means they're going to interfere with wing function.

Even with them, your wizard AND HIS GEAR, are going to bump the owl to heavy load capacity. Which at best, means a semi-controlled fall, not flight.

Also keep one thing in mind. Those talons are going to HURT. Owls kill their prey with their talons as they snatch it up. They're not built to carry anything gently.

[Umbranus]

waterwashesstuff wrote:

Are there existent rules to handle this kind of potential "Carried by another" scenario? How does this work?!

RAW the familiar could grapple you. If that succeeds you it could carry you along according to the rules.

What the rules do not answer is whether you can willingly let yourself be grappled easier. Because it will be hard for the familiar to really succeed at a grapple check vs you.

The weight is another thing. But there is one 3pp feat and one trait that increases strength for carrying purposes. I just forgot how the feat is called, but in my games donkeys and mules get it instead of run (horse/pony stats with the feat switched).
The trait is muscle of the society.

Edit: Found the feat: Pack mule

pack mule wrote:

Benefit: You gain a +4 bonus to Strength for the sole purpose of the weight you can carry (or your encumbrance).

[Splendor]

An owl can fly with a medium load.

Quote:

Flying mounts can't fly in medium or heavy barding.

An owl is not a mount. The armor rules only cover mounts, ie something you ride, not something that carries you. Carrying someone doesn't turn you into a mount.

Otherwise flying character couldn't carry allies. Besides mounts all other examples of fly say something like "The subject can fly at a speed of 60 feet (or 40 feet if it wears medium or heavy armor, or if it carries a medium or heavy load)".
If a flying character picks you up does he suddenly transform into a mount and can't fly?
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Avians can wear "Armor, belt, chest, eyes, headband, neck, ring, wrist"

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muleback cords? They are shoulder mount items, which means they're going to interfere with wing function

So long as it isn't a PFS game he could easily change the slot. So he makes a vest that does the same thing as muleback cords.

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Those talons are going to HURT.

He stated "If I fit my Wizard with a flying/climbing harness..." I am going to guess it will have a hook that the Owl's talons will grab.

[LazarX]

Splendor wrote:

He stated "If I fit my Wizard with a flying/climbing harness..." I am going to guess it will have a hook that the Owl's talons will grab.

Which of course is going to add more poundage to the weight. The owl is going to groan and flap like mad, but the wizard aint' getting off the ground.

[Splendor]

His max load is 262lbs, by the rules, so long as the total weight is under that he can fly. All be it not very well, but he can.

This isn't something I would do, but I sure would let a PC waste his money and time on it. Then, in the first combat he tried this, I would laugh as his familiar dropped him when the Owl failed his first FLY skill check.

[waterwashesstuff]

Thanks for the feedback:

My takeaway is that with the magic items, it's viable, but not advisable:
*making the familiar an obvious target
*potential falling damage

Let's take this munchkin proposal to the next level then:
The Wizard is carried, albeit with a slowed fly rate due to encumbrance, by the familiar.

The $20 Million question: Casting Invisibility on the familiar (assuming the Wiz has a high enough caster level to affect the entire load) would then do... what?

* The familiar becomes invisible. Probably.

* The wizard (being carried) count as gear for purposes of the spell, and therefore become Invisible until he breaks contact with the familiar as well?

*the harness is invisible, and the Wizard appears to be flying awkwardly through the air on a strap attached to nothing?

*"items picked up disappear if tucked into the clothing or pouches worn by the creature"
"Any part of an item that the subject carries but that extends more than 10 feet from it becomes visible."

If the familar drapes a sheet/curtain over the harness strap and over the Wizard before he casts then the wizard would be invisible, right?

So... even if the Wizard does not count as 'an item' he could be covered by another 'carried item' and affected per the Invisibility spell.

I find the concept viable in a high fantasy campaign, even if it's somewhat spirit-of-the-rules abusive. I won't be at all surprised or resentful if (when!) the DM house rules me down, though.

EDIT: I haven't even started on the "So my PC is being carried through the air by a tiny creature... now what?" questions. I'm assuming Concentration checks to cast against, possibly partial actions only in a round? Not seeing much in the rules re: this.

[Splendor]

-Creature are not objects (unless they are dead) thus they can never be gear. Invisibility makes gear carried invisible.
-Items worn by someone are normally considered part of you. Thus the harness you are wearing would be your equipment, not the Owls. However if you cast invisible on the Owl and it was carrying some kind of hanging chair the it would be affected. You could then try to sit in the invisible chair.

Quote:

items picked up disappear if tucked into the clothing or pouches worn by the creature.

A strict reading of this wouldn't define a sheet as clothing. So a sheet wouldn't work.

You could also say that any item only become invisible if completely wrapped. A sheet with a open bottom isn't wrapped up.
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I see these kind of questions more of a experiment to see if you can do something. It would be almost useless in a game, but there could be the one time its needed. Like "I need to fly up to the hovering city that has a aura that negates magical flight". Or maybe a bard flying though town like this while singing to attract a crowd.