So my PFS GM just ruled that fiery shuriken is a volley even though it doesn't state so. He said that it should default to it unless it specifically called out otherwise.
So, outta curiosity, is this an all spells thing? Do all spells go with volley rules unless they specify otherwise? What do you do with spells that don't go one way or the other? Ones that summon weapons but you don't wield the weapon yourself.
EDIT: Oh right, there was that single attack limitation from 3.5. This makes so much more sense now... That doesn't exist in Pathfinder, they all get sneak attack.
Aioran wrote: EDIT: Oh right, there was that single attack limitation from 3.5. This makes so much more sense now... That doesn't exist in Pathfinder, they all get sneak attack. There was a FAQ less than a year ago that stated that volleys only granted sneak attack once.
Indeed, so if it is counted as a volley it would only get Sneak Attack once.
Unfortunately this has not be conclusively ruled as to what spells are considered volleys. If this is for PFS, I believe they (GMs) have the ability to make rulings where the rules are unclear. You could take this up with the Venture Captain for your area if you disagree with the ruling.
However, I will tell you that in my opinion your PFS GM made the correct ruling.
Claxon wrote: Indeed, so if it is counted as a volley it would only get Sneak Attack once.
Unfortunately this has not be conclusively ruled as to what spells are considered volleys. If this is for PFS, I believe they have the ability to make rulings where the rules are unclear. You could take this up with the Venture Captain for your area if you disagree with the ruling.
However, I will tell you that in my opinion your PFS GM made the correct ruling.
Oh no, I asked the Venture Captain straight out before I even took this to a table. A spell that makes multiple attacks but doesn't specify how you make attacks with it? Ludicrous! :P
Oh, I found it.
Sneak Attack FAQ wrote: Sneak Attack: Can I add sneak attack damage to simultaneous attacks from a spell?
No. For example, scorching ray fires simultaneous rays at one or more targets, and the extra damage is only added once to one ray, chosen by the caster when the spell is cast.
Spell-based attacks which are not simultaneous, such as multiple attacks per round by a 8th-level druid using flame blade, may apply sneak attack damage to each attack so long as each attack qualifies for sneak attack (the target is denied its Dex bonus or the caster is flanking the target).
Wow... this is so bad :/
Also, it's pretty clear it applies what it applies to.
Claxon wrote: What did the VC say? He was the GM I asked lol. I didn't take this to a table without a ruling, I'm actually pretty good friends with him, so I just messaged the VC on fb. I was just curious if all spells that didn't specify were supposed to be volleys or what.
Thomas Long 175 wrote: Claxon wrote: What did the VC say? He was the GM I asked lol. I didn't take this to a table without a ruling, I'm actually pretty good friends with him, so I just messaged the VC on fb. I was just curious if all spells that didn't specify were supposed to be volleys or what. No ruling. There was a thread some place where we asked for an FAQ and official clarification on what counted and what didn't, but as far as I recall we never received an official response.
Claxon wrote: Thomas Long 175 wrote: Claxon wrote: What did the VC say? He was the GM I asked lol. I didn't take this to a table without a ruling, I'm actually pretty good friends with him, so I just messaged the VC on fb. I was just curious if all spells that didn't specify were supposed to be volleys or what. No ruling. There was a thread some place where we asked for an FAQ and official clarification on what counted and what didn't, but as far as I recall we never received an official response. Well that's just plain not helpful. :P
I can see a case for it either way. It doesn't specify that it uses iteratives and I've never seen a ranged touch attack spell that did before.
On the other hand, just about every single volley spell I've seen is an instantaneous effect not, "You can store them up and fire them as you please."
Yeah, no real rules for volleys in Pathfinder, besides that brief FAQ. Should have been addressed in the Core Rulebook, but no such luck. Not sure why, the work had mostly been done for them with 3.5's Complete Arcane.
In general, expect a conservative ruling on this. The damage just explodes when you add various modifiers to multi-ray spells.
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I think the most helpful clarification between volley spells and other spells would be the difference between "pewpewpewpewpewpewpew" and "Pew. Pew. Pew. Pew. Pew. Pew. Pew. Pew."
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