Hey all,
I'm interested in multiclassing my kitsune rogue with a level of bloodrager (draconic bloodline), but I'm uncertain of the benefit. This would give me the following natural attacks I think: Bite, Claws x2. Is this correct? So if I would make a full round attack, what would be the attack bonus and damage?
assumption: ST 14 (+2), 2 levels rogue (bab+1), 1 level bloodrager (bab+1).
Attack 1: claw +4 (1d6+2) (+1d6 sneak attack)
Attack 2: claw +4 (1d6+2) (+1d6 sneak attack)
Attack 3: bite -1 (1d4+1) (+1d6 sneak attack)
I would do so in order to avoid the twf feat chain (weapon finesse, twf, weapon focus). I would trade in 1 critical threat range (for short swords) and slower access to rogue tricks for +1 to hit and 3 more feats (and the ability to rage). Am I correct in this?
My apologies if this was answered before.
Thanks,
Fjuri
I'm not 100% sure of what you're asking, but I'll do my best to answer your question. Here's some text from the Bestiary:
Most creatures possess one or more natural attacks (attacks made without a weapon). These attacks fall into one of two categories, primary and secondary attacks. Primary attacks are made using the creature’s full base attack bonus and add the creature’s full Strength bonus on damage rolls. Secondary attacks are made using the creature’s base attack bonus –5 and add only 1/2 the creature’s Strength bonus on damage rolls. If a creature has only one natural attack, it is always made using the creature’s full base attack bonus and adds 1-1/2 times the creature’s Strength bonus on damage rolls. This increase does not apply if the creature has multiple attacks but only takes one. If a creature has only one type of attack, but has multiple attacks per round, that attack is treated as a primary attack, regardless of its type.
Some creatures treat one or more of their attacks differently, such as Dragons, which always receive 1-1/2 times their Strength bonus on damage rolls with their bite attack. These exceptions are noted in the creature’s description.
Creatures with natural attacks and attacks made with weapons can use both as part of a full attack action (although often a creature must forgo one natural attack for each weapon clutched in that limb, be it a claw, tentacle, or slam). Such creatures attack with their weapons normally but treat all of their available natural attacks as secondary attacks during that attack, regardless of the attack’s original type.
Some creatures do not have natural attacks. These creatures can make unarmed strikes just like humans do. See Table: Natural Attacks by Size for typical damage values for natural attacks by creature size.
According to Table: Natural Attacks by Size, both bite attacks and claw attacks are primary natural attacks, so your above example is not correct. Both of your claw attacks are made at your full base attack bonus + your full Strength modifier. Your attacks per round are as such:
Bite +4 (1d4+4 plus sneak attack)
Claws +4 (1d6+4 plus sneak attack)
Note that you have two claws, so if you make a full attack and strike only with your natural attacks, you effectively have three attacks at a +4 bonus. If you ever wield any weapons, however, all of your natural attacks become secondary attacks and suffer a –5 penalty on attack rolls (unless your GM allows you to take the Multiattack feat).
Thank you for your reply, it answered my question even though it wasn't that clear. :)
I had a little trouble identifying when an attack is primary and when secondary. I thought that perhaps because they were different (bite and claws) they could not both be primary (I did not look at the entire table to my shame).
The claws only manifests during bloodrage, and they disappear when it ends though. Not sure if it is such a good idea for you.
I'm not sure if they only manifest during bloodrage.
For the abyssal bloodline we have the following rules:
Claws (Su): At 1st level, you grow claws while bloodraging. These claws are treated as natural weapons, allowing you to make two claw attacks as a full attack, using your full base attack bonus.
Emphesis mine.
While for the Draconic bloodline we have the following rules:
Claws (Su): At 1st level, you grow claws. These claws are treated as natural weapons, allowing you to make two claw attacks as a full attack, using your full base attack bonus.
Unless there's an errata I missed, I would assume they are different abilities.
If it only works during bloodrage you are correct of course and not a good idea for my character.
When a bloodrager enters a bloodrage, he often takes on a physical transformation influenced by his bloodline and powered by the magic that roils within him. Unless otherwise specified, he gains the effects of his bloodline powers only while in a bloodrage; once the bloodrage ends, all powers from his bloodline immediately cease, and any physical changes the bloodrager underwent revert, restoring him to normal.
this is from the bloodrager. Since it doesn't say the claws last longer than the rage they don't. The words they use to specify otherwise is "You have these benefits constantly, even while not bloodraging." So sorry, you don't have claws unless you're raging.
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If you just want claws and not the other stuff from Bloodrager, you are better off with 2 levels of Ranger or Slayer and going the Natural Weapons style route. Aspect of the Beast, one of the first bonus feats, will get you two claw attacks that are always on.
You might want to check out Slayer for other reasons as well. It is going to stack with a lot of your Rogue abilities.