Goblin Squad Member
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Oh - I think Keovar might have been selling a kickstarter account that he got in trade for his Alpha account. I'll see if I can find the details and confirm that for you.
In general, DT is no longer avialable, as it was a kickstarter reward. If you are dead set on it, you will need to buy one off a kickstarter backer.
EDIT: Found it.
If anyone wants to buy a basic EE account (it was a '2nd month' one, before thoser were altered to 1st), let me know. I got it as part of the deal when I sold my alpha account, but I don't think I'll use it.
So you may want to PM him.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I have some. I'm not committing to selling to anyone, or even sure If I'm selling them yet, unless someone shocks me with an offer. I don't really know what they are worth to people, as Destiny's Twin doesn't have a known value.
I'm torn between selling them now, or increasing my investment and cooking them for a year or two. An DT account with 2 blank 2-year-old characters could be worth a lot of money.
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Goblin Squad Member
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1) There is a suggestion that there may be limits to how long you can accumulate.
And if someone, for some reason, decides to not spend that XP, and it accumulates for several years .... I would estimate the value in the tens of thousands of dollars.
Doesn't sound like they plan on it, and there is no reason to. The only people that would get mad are simply jealous someone made money and they didnt, or they are mad that someone doesn't have to wait as long as they did.
I don't see why GW wouldn't want people to do this, they get more money in the end. They don't get the box cost from the buyer of the account, but the seller spends 4 or more times that amount cooking the account.2) to accumulate, there must be investment of monthly costs.
...or increasing my investment..
3) If you want to sell, I want another.
Shock me with an offer.
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Goblin Squad Member
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1) There is a suggestion that there may be limits to how long you can accumulate.
I think I know what quote from Ryan you are referring to, but I think that restriction was meant for how much XP you can accumulate as backlog for a DT that has not been created yet(while your "main" is already acquiring XP). In reply to when the DT feature will actually be enabled.
Here is that quote: Transition Mechanism for DT feature.
So they do not want people to accrue endless xp for a character (twin) that has not been created yet.
But I have not read anything yet about limiting this accumulation of XP for a Twin that has been created, but is not using this XP. Assuming off course that the "main" (or the other half) has been paying for Gametime all that time. There does not seem to be much difference with the first situation other then that you have already locked in a Race and Charactermodel. After all, no need to pick a class. So not entirely sure about this.
I guess GW could limit this pool for created twins easily but then people may stop putting game-time into their twins when that point has been reached.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I am also curious if GW is thinking about putting a certain limit on the amount of achievements you can get per 24 hours.
Unused Twins, but also regular accounts that have been active but did not use up the XP could thus be "powerleveled" by a dedicated player(with friends) within days by quickly raking up all the achievements needed.
For Crafting-related skills there is already a brake on that through the queuing-mechanic of crafting jobs, but wondering about the combat-related ones. I understand the slayer-achievements require an exponential amount of kills the higher you get, so that looks like some serious grinding already. Even so, the tolerance level for grinding of a powerleveler is pretty high.
I guess the Twins will be a small subset of accounts, so it does not really seem needed to put a limit on achievements for just them, but it could become a thing for regular accounts that have been accumulating XP that has not been used. Lots of people there that just let a sub run, while they have been playing something else.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I am also curious if GW is thinking about putting a certain limit on the amount of achievements you can get per 24 hours.
Everything in this game doesn't need to be time-limited. There have to be some things that people can grind away.
There are these gamers, they have lots of money, they have lots of time. If GW makes a game they can only enjoy for an hour or two a day, they will not give GW their money.
I'll say again, there is no good reason to limit how much someone can load a character with unused xp.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I am also curious if GW is thinking about putting a certain limit on the amount of achievements you can get per 24 hours.
Unused Twins, but also regular accounts that have been active but did not use up the XP could thus be "powerleveled" by a dedicated player(with friends) within days by quickly raking up all the achievements needed
Their stated mechanic is to let people pay for a set amount of experience per month. If person keeps their account active, but doesn't play, then all they got for their money was some experience. To take away experience they paid for is a bit reminiscent of the Government saying to a retiree, "You didn't use enough from your 401k last year, so we're taking away the excess because we think you're just hoarding it to use later."
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Goblin Squad Member
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I am against putting those time-limits in too, btw. I feel people are free to grind out achievements asap as long as they have the xp. I was rather asking because there seems to be a bit of worry with Ryan that later on in the game's life there will be accounts/characters with such large pools of XP.
Especially this quote, where he explains that there will probably not be an infinite backlog of XP for Twin characters that have not been made yet.
"I could effectively create a 5 year old character ON DEMAND."
This quote is about unmade twins, but I do not see how this would be different for a regular character that has accumulated a huge pool of XP over the years. After all, it is a classless system.
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Goblin Squad Member
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If you originally backed the Kickstarter, you would have had the DT with the 35 dollar Adventurer level. They also added the Adventurer Reward as an addon during the Kickstarter, so people could buy these (or a multitude of them) and make their friends happy once the Kickstarter was over. Those were 35 dollars also, and contain all the Bonusses and perks of the original 35 dollar pledge.
Those addons can not be distributed to others as of yet, Goblinworks is working on that. That addon should enable you to make an account (or upgrade one?) that has the original 35 dollar Adventurer pledge rewards, amongst which is the Destinies Twin.
The Adventurer pledge tier also included a 2-month game subscription, so that will add to the value.
These were all the rewards and bonusses that came with that tier (and thus with the addon):
[list]Perks and Bonuses:
Here is the description of the Adventurer Reward Addon (can not be viewed anymore since the Pledge manager was removed):
Adventurer Reward Tier
You have selected this addon x times.You can purchase additional Adventurer Reward Tier packages as Add-Ons. Each package of the Adventurer Reward Tier provides one Pathfinder Online account with all the bonuses and rewards described in the Adventurer Reward Tier. This is the perfect way to give a friend the gift of a Pathfinder Online subscription, along with all the special promotional bonuses and benefits of the Adventurer Reward Tier! Pathfinder Online accounts created with Adventurer Reward add-ons will be invited to play during the last period of Early Enrollment, and will be eligible for Daily Deal items as of the date you increased your pledge by one or more 35 dollar increments, not the date of your first eligibility.
So the above already puts the value quit a bit over 35 dollars, of these accounts and addons. The Destinies Twin is where the real value is for many though, and I have no idea where that will end up.
My advice would be to really try to get one now though, rather then in a year (or two), since I think these accounts and addons will increase a lot in value when the game becomes succesful. If the game is a bust, then not so much but you would not want to buy one then anyway, I think.
Remember that with the way XP and subscriptions/gametime works, an account or character that has accumulated XP over the months/years, has an intrinsic dollar-value that kindoff matches the money that has been spent on XP over that time. The fact that characters are not locked into a Class also helps with this. Maybe the dollarvalue of a 2.5 year old Crafting-specialized character is less then that of a 2.5 year COmbat-specialized character, but nothing stops you from taking that character in another direction if you bought the account: and the crafting-value is still there. I guess the value of a Character may also depend on wether it has very difficult Achievements on its name, which could be necessary for certain Skills/Feats.
So the intrinsic value of a fully paid for 2.5 year old character is not a simple matter of 30x15 dollars=450 dollars. But that is the basic value of such a character: you can not simply powerlevel a character to that level in any other way. The Destinies Twin adds a big bonus to that: not quit 2x the value since you can not play the characters simultaneously, but still. And off course that added value keeps adding up over the years that the Character/account is actively paid for.
All this only if the game becomes a succes off course. If not, then no. :)
Disclaimer: There is always the possibility that GW decides down the road, that people get more bang(XP) for their buck; i.e. that later on in the game's life you can create a similar character from scratch, not in 2.5 years, but in 1 year. In that case, the above simple calculation does not hold. This is always a possibility, even though GW made the powercurve pretty steep at the low levels, so that characters become viable quickly.
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Goblin Squad Member
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@Adding to Tycale
There are two types of DT accounts. The $35 one is for Open Enrollment, which will start some time in 2016.
Then there are the Early Enrollment DT accounts, that retailed at $100, but I doubt anyone will sell them for close to that price now.
The EE DT accounts will always be a much higher value because they will have 1-2 years over the OE DT accounts. They also come with a few hundred dollars worth of goodies.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Not everyone considers PO perks investments.
Well, not yet. :) Ok, that is a little cynical. If you have (or make) a friend in this game that has an extra account like that, I am sure you will not have to pay a premium, or even just get it gifted.
Lots of people have bought buddy EE or Guild accounts, and I am sure these were not meant to be sold to their buddies at a premium. Same for people who bought the 35 dollar Adventurer addons. At this stage, where the game is still early in development, some people may be reconsidering their participation, buddies may not show up, or Guilds may decide to go elswhere. This is the stage where other people may get such an account for a reasonable price still.
Later on, I am sure it will be more difficult, all depending on the game's success off course.
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Goblin Squad Member
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If you keep your offer of 200 dollars for an EE account with DT visible(put it in the thread title of a new thread), I am almost convinced you will succeed in the coming months. Like Saiph said, people who want to back out and just recoup their money, or sell of an unused buddy or Guild account. I know GW does condone selling and buying of accounts, but not sure if they want to turn these forums into a Marketplace just yet though.
Shroud of the Avatar has a dedicated forum for transactions of accounts between players(with a disclaimer, since Portalarium does not have an official tool for this). Hopefully the new Goblinworks forums will have such a subforum too once EE is in full swing. An official tool for selling/buying accounts will probably have to wait.
There is also the problem that you currently can not check what exactly is included with the EE account you are buying. The perks and rewards from an original KS EE account do not show yet on your account page, so no way to differentiate between an EE account that has been bought recently in the Goblinworks store, that does *not* have Destinies Twin, and the other Kickstarter goodies.
So maybe wait untill GW has sorted that out (soon, before start of EE is the expectation).
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Goblin Squad Member
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There is also the problem that you currently can not check what exactly is included with the EE account you are buying. The perks and rewards from an original KS EE account do not show yet on your account page, so no way to differentiate between an EE account that has been bought recently in the Goblinworks store, that does *not* have Destinies Twin, and the other Kickstarter goodies.
So maybe wait untill GW has sorted that out (soon, before start of EE is the expectation).
If you are buying a pre-made account, yes, you can't tell what kind of account it is. But if you have someone like me, with unused invites, you can be positive it is for a kickstarter Crowdforger Pioneer account.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Well thats unnerving as all hell. Makes this whole transaction pretty sketchy Id say.If you are buying a pre-made account, yes, you can't tell what kind of account it is. But if you have someone like me, with unused invites, you can be positive it is for a kickstarter Crowdforger Pioneer account.There is also the problem that you currently can not check what exactly is included with the EE account you are buying. The perks and rewards from an original KS EE account do not show yet on your account page, so no way to differentiate between an EE account that has been bought recently in the Goblinworks store, that does *not* have Destinies Twin, and the other Kickstarter goodies.
So maybe wait untill GW has sorted that out (soon, before start of EE is the expectation).
The key word to add to Valkenr's statement is "yet". Ryan's been clear that they're working on the tech to show us all what options we've bought on our existing accounts, but they're simply not ready to roll that out *yet*.
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Goblin Squad Member
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how does selling an account work?
I'm on Early Entry Destinys Twin (Crowdforger Pioneer from pretty much day 1) but I don't think I'll have the time to play once the action starts.
Shieldmate is also still open.
If you are going to play the game, just not right at launch, I would hold onto the account. If you are going to start playing within the first four months, I would consider starting your character from day 1, and letting them accumulate xp with the free subscription time you were given.
To sell at the current time, someone gives you money, and you give them your login details, then they can go change them. The trouble here is with the Paizo account, since they are kind of linked, and all the digital content is through that account, so you either have to lower your asking price, or give them your paizo account too.
Then the buyer has to hope that you never try and retrieve your account details from Paizo or GW, and claim someone stole your account.
Unless you are selling an invite from a guild/buddy pack, in which they get to create their own account. All the buyer has to worry about is actually getting the email. The buyer could request to use Ebay, but they should also expect to cover the associated costs of using Ebay.
Ryan has told us that down the road they will be providing a safe way to sell accounts, but who knows how far out that is.
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Goblin Squad Member
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how does selling an account work?
I'm on Early Entry Destinys Twin (Crowdforger Pioneer from pretty much day 1) but I don't think I'll have the time to play once the action starts.
Shieldmate is also still open.
If you are going to play the game, just not right at launch, I would hold onto the account. If you are going to start playing within the first four months, I would consider starting your character from day 1, and letting them accumulate xp with the free subscription time you were given.
To sell at the current time, someone gives you money, and you give them your login details, then they can go change them. The trouble here is with the Paizo account, since they are kind of linked, and all the digital content is through that account, so you either have to lower your asking price, or give them your paizo account too.
Then the buyer has to hope that you never try and retrieve your account details from Paizo or GW, and claim someone stole your account.
Unless you are selling an invite from a guild/buddy pack, in which they get to create their own account. All the buyer has to worry about is actually getting the email. The buyer could request to use Ebay, but they should also expect to cover the associated costs of using Ebay.
Ryan has told us that down the road they will be providing a safe way to sell accounts, but who knows how far out that is.
The two accounts are actually separate, I sold my DT account to someone else and still have full access to my Paizo account. I did not sell any of the downloads etc. and so did not have to hand over my Paizo account, just my GW one.
PTD
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Goblin Squad Member
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My guess is that there won't be a lot of people participating here that want to dispose of their accounts (The exception, rather than the norm)
It might be good to have a thread in the main Paizo/Pathfinder forums, for those that aren't even considering the possibility they could recover some value for their Kickstarter investment.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I would like to sell my account. (100$)
Reward Quantity
New Player Pack 1
Destinys Twin 1
Daily Deals 1
Early Enrollment 1
Soundtrack Download 1
1 Month game time 4
Alliance Pack 1
Head Start 1
Shield Mate 1
Behind the Scenes PDF 1
Character Name Reservation 1
Please send me a PM