Hi, for a new game I thinked to play as a cartomancer witch cause this archetype has a lot in common with my idea. Cartomancer witch doesn't seem the best option for a witch, so I'm asking for advice.
Here are the options
Basic game: Pathfinder with some house rules (own spell point system)
Books: we have acces to d20pfsrd.com and all 3.5 books (not all, but we have too many 3.5 books to write them all).
Points: 25 points game
Idea: Some focus in divination, I have accés to divination spells from 3.5 (prmision from master) and as level 5 feat I'm going to take the spontaneous divination feature from wizards.
Spontaneous divination: "Spontaneous Divination is an Alternative Class Feature for the wizard class that you exchange for the metamagic bonus feat you would normally get at 5th level. It grants you the ability to spontaneously use a spell slot with a prepared spell to instead cast any divination spell that you know of equal or lesser level."
As you can see thanks to this feat I don't need to take all spell slots for divination and with http://community.wizards.com/forum/previous-editions-character-optimization /threads/1152481 There are some good spells there.
Party members: We are playing as a group of carnies(I think that is the word in english), a dervish dancer nyanbard (as...dancer, damage dealer), gnome sandman bard (puppeteer, traps and focus on ilusion spells), magus (some type of tank build..I don't know which one) and me (seer).
The reason to take the cartomancer build is only because it gives a lot of flavour to the witch, so if it's really suboptimal I can discard it.
Any advice? I prefer debuff was only an option, not my only job.
Thanks.
I don't find the edit button..if exists...
I forgot to say that we start at level 4.
well i dont know about any of the 3.5 stuff, but you defitnally got to grab pointblank shot and percise shot to go flinging cards around, and personally i love the cartomancer with all its awsomeness lol not to mention you can deliver nasty touch attacks at range :D so no needing to be up close and personal like the magus, and your cards all have the returning ability so no need to buy extra ammo (but be sure to keep a spare on ya just in case lol) also ask you gm how he see's the enchanting cost for a deck is, some folks think you need to pay for ammunition AND weapon cost, then there are some who just pay the ammunition or the weapon cost, it varies and remember got to have fun :D
edit: plus your only giving up the 2nd lv hex, and replacing the familiar wich is really not that bad for what ya get
the problem with pointblank and precise shot is you're expending two feats for just improve a little bit your capacity to hit with ranged touch spells (well..that's the basic feature of cartomancer) is really worth of it? 3 feats for just flavour is a little expensive.
If you want to deal damage, just cast magic misile (spell points system, more than enough to cast it without concern for spell slots)
My current stats at level 4:
Str: 8
Dex: 15
Con: 14
Int: 22 (+2 human, +2 vast int)
Wis: 12
Cha: 10
Traits:
- Keeper of acenstral scrolls (I need knowledge nobility for my background)
- Survivor (Again, for sense motive, the bonus to initiative is a sweet extra)
Hex:
- Slumber
- Evil eye
Spells:
- Covered, but open to any special suggestion
Feats:
- Mental Toughness
- ????
Thanks for the suggestions >_<
I will make a few feet, and hex suggestions.
Soothsayer, Misfortune, Evil Eye, and Cackle. Are all good options for hexes.
Accursed Hex This is a must have feet in my option for any witch.
At level 4 I would go with.
Feats: Accursed Hex, and Extra Hex
Hex : Misfortune, Soothsayer, and Cackle.
as a level 8 cartomancer my 2 cents:
you will regret the frequency of missing card delivered spells without precise shot. You'll take an effective -8 to hit very often. People say touch is easy, but frankly it isn't all that easy with 1/2 BAB, a stat you likely won't pump/item up, and into melee/cover penalties.
spamming the same hexes gets incredibly boring very quickly, being able to deliver all the naughty melee touch range spells on your list is the point of this archetype and greatly relieves that - and there are plenty that you don't do for damage
also magic missile is not on the witch list, if you've got that and the other house-ruling above, you're really too far off the radar of just a 'cartomancer' to advise
no, I was confused, I can't take magic missile, but well..change it for ear-piercing scream ;P The house rules are an spell point system and divination stuff.
As you said, I'm worried about throwing the same hexes over and over again, that's why I said debuff needs to be an option, not my only job.
So...in your experience this two feats are mandatory (point blank shot as prerquisite for precise shot), what spells do you usually use?
By the way... soothsayer is a really good hex? I don't find useful at all :S
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a few:
touch of fatigue(oh sorry did that npc look barbarianish?)
chill touch on undead
touch of idiocy(note it specifically calls out it interferes with their casting)
bestow curse
vampiric touch
soothsayer, gimmicky, hold your parties fortunes til later, I don't have either actually
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dont forget that since when useing the cards to deliver spells the cards dont deal damage, so it makes it VERY easy to have a few cure spells to dish out to the party away from the party so those bad guys dont come near you lol
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I also have a level 8 cartomancer. My thoughts:
All my feats have been Extra Hex as hexes are fun and I want as many options as possible. I agree with the guides that say hexes are better than almost all feats, though I do plan to take Accursed Hex at level 9.
I throw cards to heal party members while still cackling or to throw touch spells at targets that are not basing party members. Occasionally that means I ask a party member to take a 5 foot step so I can throw a card. The Point Blank Shot and Precise Shot feats are great if throwing cards is your primary offense (Magus build), but as a witch, throwing cards is a change-up ability I do occasionally.
At level 8, my witch has the following hexes: Cackle, Evil Eye, Flight, Fortune, Healing, Misfortune, Scar, Slumber, and Soothsayer.
Scar allows me to Fortune/Cackle and Heal party members up to a mile away. Great for avoiding movement in combat as well as chase scenes or when the party rogue wants some help in his moonlighting activities.
Soothsayer is a great hex. Normally when I Evil Eye an opponent for -4 to saves the hex ends at the beginning of my turn before I can hit the opponent with a spell or Misfortune. With Soothsayer, the hex starts on the turn the target first makes a save so it's still in affect when it comes to my turn. As a bonus, it also allows me to put Fortune Hexes on customers of my shop or just walk through my town throwing out Fortune Hexes at random.
If your DM allows you to retrain, plan on getting a Cackling Hag’s Blouse as soon as possible and retraining the Cackle hex to something else.
If you're not delivering bad touch to opponents then why take cartomancer?
A vast majority of the time you could already deliver heals to party members with a base witch's familiar without risking it.
Why lose the hex and familiar benefits, if you aren't going to do what the archetype brings to the table?
Losing a familiar(and improved familiar possibility) isn't nothing, you need to exploit what you gain in exchange to be worth it
A feat suggestion:
Spirit Talker (ACG)- a variable hex with a LOT of STRONG choices...
Soothsayer also lets you put Fortune on the entire party before you enter a room where you know you'll need it.
A real action economy booster.
@OP: there have been several relatively recent threads discussing Cartomancer building, combat strategy, and also debating how the rules for Spell Deck work.
I encourage you to seek them out.
plaidwandering wrote: If you're not delivering bad touch to opponents then why take cartomancer?
A vast majority of the time you could already deliver heals to party members with a base witch's familiar without risking it.
Why lose the hex and familiar benefits, if you aren't going to do what the archetype brings to the table?
Losing a familiar(and improved familiar possibility) isn't nothing, you need to exploit what you gain in exchange to be worth it
1. Theme.
2. It adds bad touch at range to my repertoire at the cost of a single hex.
3. I don't have to worry about my spell book dying.
The bad touch has been great, especially Touch of Idiocy. I just don't see the value in giving up 2 precious hexes in order to get precise shot. If all opponents are engaged in melee with party members I can use hexes, non-touch spells, or simply ask a party member to 5 foot step away so I can throw a card.
Guidance Blog by Alex Augunas covers a build using the Cartomancer and Hedge Witch archetypes. You might be interested in looking at it.
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