Not to beat the skeletal remnants of a horse... but I'm looking at this, and the FAQ is just a bit too vague. Can I get some clarification?
From the FAQ:
Feral Combat Training and Unarmed Strike Damage: Does this allow me to use my monk unarmed damage with the selected natural attack?
Yes. The feat says you can apply "effects that augment an unarmed strike," and the monk's increased unarmed damage counts as such.
posted Oct 29, 2013 | back to top
So. Let's say I have a PC race that has a d6 claw attack. And I'm a monk. I take Improved Natural Attack when able. So I'm currently sitting at a d8 claw attack.
I take Feral Combat Training, and get to 8th level. A monk's unarmed damage goes up to a d10 at this point, and from what I can tell, my claws would also go up to a d10, as the FAQ states above. Bear with me, I'm getting to the meat here. x.x
Now let's say I have my d8 claws when my monk unarmed damage is a d6. I'm willing to concede at that point, if I flurry or something, I use the d6s. No big. BUT. Once the monk's d6 goes to a d8, would that also affect my claws, and push them to a d10?
INA increases by one size category, not a static number. So it's always going to be one dice up from what your unarmed strike would be.
Your claws act as monk weapons, so in your last sentence you deal your claw damage in a flurry if it's higher. So no d6 unless you actually punch/kick them.
The rest, Improved Natural Attack doesn't effect unarmed attacks, so you can't use it to buff your unarmed damage. You add all buffs to both sides (claws and unarmed damage) and take the best total damage.
Well yeah, I knew INA wouldn't buff the basic unarmed damage. The big question was would the claw damage keep going up, and from your responses, apparently it does.
I am happy now. I can make my feral fighter and not be out-classed at higher levels now :D
Your claws act as monk weapons, so in your last sentence you deal your claw damage in a flurry if it's higher. So no d6 unless you actually punch/kick them.
The rest, Improved Natural Attack doesn't effect unarmed attacks, so you can't use it to buff your unarmed damage. You add all buffs to both sides (claws and unarmed damage) and take the best total damage.
no where does it say you treat the natural attack as an unarmed attack, it still is and behaves like a natural attack, but stuff that effects unarmed attacks or require unarmed attacks can now also use your natural attack, or be applied to them.
so yes anything that effects natural attacks still works when using this feat to make it use unarmed stuff.
Your claws act as monk weapons, so in your last sentence you deal your claw damage in a flurry if it's higher. So no d6 unless you actually punch/kick them.
The rest, Improved Natural Attack doesn't effect unarmed attacks, so you can't use it to buff your unarmed damage. You add all buffs to both sides (claws and unarmed damage) and take the best total damage.
no where does it say you treat the natural attack as an unarmed attack, it still is and behaves like a natural attack, but stuff that effects unarmed attacks or require unarmed attacks can now also use your natural attack, or be applied to them.
so yes anything that effects natural attacks still works when using this feat to make it use unarmed stuff.
No one said it didn't work, it does, it just doesn't matter. It buffs your claw damage. However, when you're using your unarmed damage it does nothing as you aren't using your claw damage anymore. The feat lets "effects that augment an unarmed strike" effect the claws not the otherway around.
The claws are a set amount of damage. All the Improved Natural Attack does is move up that set number. If your claws are a D6 or a D8, all that changes is how soon the monk damage chart takes over for your claw damage. The d10 from the monk chart didn't change.
The monk unarmed damage chart replaces your damage, it doesn't add to it. If you had some special ability that raised your natural unarmed strike damage, it wouldn't affect your monk damage either.
Your claws act as monk weapons, so in your last sentence you deal your claw damage in a flurry if it's higher. So no d6 unless you actually punch/kick them.
The rest, Improved Natural Attack doesn't effect unarmed attacks, so you can't use it to buff your unarmed damage. You add all buffs to both sides (claws and unarmed damage) and take the best total damage.
no where does it say you treat the natural attack as an unarmed attack, it still is and behaves like a natural attack, but stuff that effects unarmed attacks or require unarmed attacks can now also use your natural attack, or be applied to them.
so yes anything that effects natural attacks still works when using this feat to make it use unarmed stuff.
No one said it didn't work, it does, it just doesn't matter. It buffs your claw damage. However, when you're using your unarmed damage it does nothing as you aren't using your claw damage anymore. The feat lets "effects that augment an unarmed strike" effect the claws not the otherway around.
The claws are a set amount of damage. All the Improved Natural Attack does is move up that set number. If your claws are a D6 or a D8, all that changes is how soon the monk damage chart takes over for your claw damage. The d10 from the monk chart didn't change.
The monk unarmed damage chart replaces your damage, it doesn't add to it. If you had some special ability that raised your natural unarmed strike damage, it wouldn't affect your monk damage either.
if you use your claws in a flurry or as normal, then they are your claws and do get buffed by INA and do get effected by monks unarmed damage. the only thing you can argue is order of operation which in general allows for things to actually effect things, and not overlap. just like how different things can apply to static damage, such as strength and enhancement bonus, different things that do different things to damage dice still work.
rend and monk damage work together.
your using your monk damage sure, but it is on a natural weapon which still gains benefits of all the feats and effects that effect natural attacks.
so your claw now does 1d8 due to monk damage, INA makes it 1d10 because it still effects the natural attack, because it is a natural attack like normal, just with changed damage dice.
#1 No where does it state that you can add or up the dice to the monk chart for damage.
#2 You are allowed to use the monk chart it to replace your base damage, not add to it.
#3 The chart is based on your size. Changing your natural attack one die doesn't change your size for unarmed damage.
#4 Your base damage has no effect on the monk chart. D2, D4 or D8 claws either do monk or claw damage. You don't get to buff your unarmed attacks because your claws deal more base damage (and that's all the INA feat does).
Unless you can point to something that says you can buff your replaced damage instead of the base damage, I don't think there is anything you can say Bandw2 to convince me it works like you think it does. To me it looks like you add INA to claws and THEN check to see if unarmed damage is better.
