Can golems lower their unbeatable SR?

[seebs]

Golem "magic immunity" is like special unbeatable SR.

Is it like SR enough that golems can lower it if ordered to?

[Eridan]

Immunity to X is a special ability with its own rules.

Universal Monster Rules - Immunity wrote:

Immunity (Ex or Su) A creature with immunities takes no damage from listed sources. Immunities can also apply to afflictions, conditions, spells (based on school, level, or save type), and other effects. A creature that is immune does not suffer from these effects, or any secondary effects that are triggered due to an immune effect.

It has nothing to do with Spell Resistance.

Universal Monster Rules - Spell Resistance wrote:

Spell Resistance (Ex) A creature with spell resistance can avoid the effects of spells and spell-like abilities that directly affect it. To determine if a spell or spell-like ability works against a creature with spell resistance, the caster must make a caster level check (1d20 + caster level). If the result equals or exceeds the creature's spell resistance, the spell works normally, although the creature is still allowed a saving throw.

So the answer is 'No a golem cannot lower his immunity against magic by RAW'.

[Psyren]

We also debated this on GitP - another issue with golems lowering SR is that it must be "voluntary" and mindless creatures do not have volition. (i.e. if you order someone to do something and they are forced to obey, that action is not voluntary.)

[ShadowcatX]

I agree 100% with Eridan.

[seebs]

Huh. I was convinced I'd once found a thing stating that a golem's "immunity to magic" was "treated as unbeatable SR", but now I can't find it.

I would not accept the argument that mindless creatures can't be ordered to take actions which have to be "voluntary", for roughly the same reason that you'd be able to order a dominated creature to do a thing. I think "voluntary" means "not reactive or unconscious" in that context.

[Psyren]

seebs wrote:

Huh. I was convinced I'd once found a thing stating that a golem's "immunity to magic" was "treated as unbeatable SR", but now I can't find it.

I would not accept the argument that mindless creatures can't be ordered to take actions which have to be "voluntary", for roughly the same reason that you'd be able to order a dominated creature to do a thing. I think "voluntary" means "not reactive or unconscious" in that context.

Even dominated creatures have agency, wrt actions against their nature and suicidal orders. Automatons do not even have that.

"Any creature that can think, learn, or remember has at least 1 point of Intelligence. A creature with no Intelligence score is mindless, an automaton operating on simple instincts or programmed instructions."

There is nothing "voluntary" about that existence - it cannot choose, even on a self-preservatory level, not to obey.

[boring7]

seebs wrote:

Huh. I was convinced I'd once found a thing stating that a golem's "immunity to magic" was "treated as unbeatable SR", but now I can't find it.

I would not accept the argument that mindless creatures can't be ordered to take actions which have to be "voluntary", for roughly the same reason that you'd be able to order a dominated creature to do a thing. I think "voluntary" means "not reactive or unconscious" in that context.

It was the case in 3.0 and 3.5.

Pathfinder's Spell resistance (for posterity)

The spell "Spell immunity" (not necessarily relevant) which includes the text you're looking for; "The warded creature effectively has unbeatable spell resistance regarding the specified spell or spells."

The 3.5 SRD (which is, obviously, not pathfinder) gives us the passage; "A creature with spell immunity avoids the effects of spells and spell-like abilities that directly affect it. This works exactly like spell resistance, except that it cannot be overcome.

And I think that's everything.

Personally I disagree with the "agency" question, you can order a construct to "voluntarily" fail its save (I mean, you want the Evil Necromancer's™ Bone Golem to be able to give him cover from the fireball by just standing there, right?) and quibbling about whether it's smart enough to follow the order is likewise asking for trouble.

This may mean you can't haste undead again, but I don't really care enough to go digging.

[Killgore von Overshank]

seebs wrote:

Golem "magic immunity" is like special unbeatable SR.

Is it like SR enough that golems can lower it if ordered to?

The Immunity to Magic extraordinary ability, using a clay golem as an example, reads as:

"A clay golem is immune to any spell or spell-like ability that allows spell resistance. In addition, certain spells and effects function differently against the creature, as noted below."

And then of course it lists exceptional spells that do penetrate the golem's immunity. While I agree a golem's magic immunity is 'like' special unbeatable SR, the ability says nothing about the golem having some special form of SR. You could say it's implied, since only SR-incurring spells don't work, but by RAW I don't think that's the case. If they wanted a golem to have real high SR, they'd just give it SR 100 or something.

To put it simply, this ability isn't SR and thus cannot be lowered, IMO.