Realistic Likeness and the kitsune

[Raphael Valen]

hey all i decided to make a new thread and ask about the features of this feat.

Realistic Likeness:
"You can precisely mimic the physical features of any individual you have encountered. When you use your racial change shape ability, you can attempt to take the form of an individual, granting you a +10 circumstance bonus on Disguise checks made to fool others with your impersonation."

here are my questions:

1. is this only illusion of the person your copying or is it such as full plumbing, minus any special abilites they have?

2.is the feat meant only for humans or humanoid or is it any indivudual such as from a tiefling or even demons and such?

thats all my current questions about the feat lol, i wanted to ask this since the kitsune is coming to PFS soon lol

[pauljathome]

Raphael Valen wrote:

hey all i decided to make a new thread and ask about the features of this feat.

Realistic Likeness:
"You can precisely mimic the physical features of any individual you have encountered. When you use your racial change shape ability, you can attempt to take the form of an individual, granting you a +10 circumstance bonus on Disguise checks made to fool others with your impersonation."

here are my questions:

1. is this only illusion of the person your copying or is it such as full plumbing, minus any special abilites they have?

2.is the feat meant only for humans or humanoid or is it any indivudual such as from a tiefling or even demons and such?

thats all my current questions about the feat lol, i wanted to ask this since the kitsune is coming to PFS soon lol

"When you are in human form, you can take the shape of a specific individual.". Pretty clear to me. Some people disagree so you might be occasionally able to get away with more but at mist tables it will be human only.

It is NOT an illusion, it is a form of alter self. I certainly assume it cones with the plumbing but I wouldn't be surprised to see some variation. Probably something best not pushed too explicitly at the table in PFS anyway unless you know the group well.

[Raphael Valen]

ok im glad its not a illusion makes for some intersting character ideas lol, though i dont see where the human part is in the actual feat though, the part you qouted is from the shape change ability itself and not the feat so its probally going to end up being differnt for each table lol but hopefully one day paizo will make it more clear and maybe add more kitsune stuff lol just cuase kitsune are cool lol

[Nefreet]

All I see is the word "human", not "humanoid".

Are we reading the same ability?

[graystone]

You're opening a can of worms with this ability. Technically I think it works so you can take the shape of non-humans. The only place it states human is in the fluff/descriptive text and even if you take that as rules text, it just says that it only in human, not kitsune, form to use it. (IE, meaning it alters the human form).

However, I can see people reading it that it ONLY works when the form is that of a human. It's not in the rules text, but expect table variation and that you'll only get to swap human looks.

[David Haller]

It's pretty obvious that, RAI, it would be restricted to human form.

It would be amazing if Pathfinder books were less carelessly written, wouldn't it?

[daimaru]

pauljathome wrote:

Raphael Valen wrote:

hey all i decided to make a new thread and ask about the features of this feat.

Realistic Likeness:
"You can precisely mimic the physical features of any individual you have encountered. When you use your racial change shape ability, you can attempt to take the form of an individual, granting you a +10 circumstance bonus on Disguise checks made to fool others with your impersonation."

here are my questions:

1. is this only illusion of the person your copying or is it such as full plumbing, minus any special abilites they have?

"When you are in human form, you can take the shape of a specific individual.". Pretty clear to me. Some people disagree so you might be occasionally able to get away with more but at mist tables it will be human only.

It is NOT an illusion, it is a form of alter self. I certainly assume it cones with the plumbing but I wouldn't be surprised to see some variation. Probably something best not pushed too explicitly at the table in PFS anyway unless you know the group well.

The description of Change Shape says it's a form of Alter Self but Realistic Likeness, doesn't. At least anywhere I could find. Why do you think it is?

[pauljathome]

daimaru wrote:

[

The description of Change Shape says it's a form of Alter Self but Realistic Likeness, doesn't. At least anywhere I could find. Why do you think it is?

"When you use your racial change shape ability"

It seems about as clear as things ever get. It references change shape, it is the same as change shape except where noted.

While some people disagree, it really is as close to unambiguous as you can get. Nothing is completely unambiguous. Just read some random threads, it is just about impossible to make things so clear that SOMEBODY won't misinterpret it.

The power is very thematic and sufficiently useful when it just allows humans. And that really is what it says.

[daimaru]

Hmm, OK, that slides me from 60/40 the other way to 40/60 to your interpretation. Personally I -like- the d20pfsrd editors note that kitsune should be actually changing into humans right down to the ground, because they could in "real" life. I'm just conflicted by the "same sex" limitation on racial change shape ability and "any" on "realistic likeness".

[David Haller]

daimaru wrote:

Hmm, OK, that slides me from 60/40 the other way to 40/60 to your interpretation. Personally I -like- the d20pfsrd editors note that kitsune should be actually changing into humans right down to the ground, because they could in "real" life. I'm just conflicted by the "same sex" limitation on racial change shape ability and "any" on "realistic likeness".

Well because it's the "next level" ability in what amounts to a "feat chain" - you kind of expect some additional functionality and/or lifting of restrictions as you go "up" the shapechange ladder.

(Not to delve into the mythical origins of the race, but in Japanese lore kitsune are spirits which can sort of "be people" to the point of getting married and having a whole human life, keeping their supernatural nature secret - they "become" someone. It's not illusory, it's actual.)

[daimaru]

David Haller wrote:

Well because it's the "next level" ability in what amounts to a "feat chain" - you kind of expect some additional functionality and/or lifting of restrictions as you go "up" the shapechange ladder.

That makes sense too.

Quote:

(Not to delve into the mythical origins of the race, but in Japanese lore kitsune are spirits which can sort of "be people" to the point of getting married and having a whole human life, keeping their supernatural nature secret - they "become" someone. It's not illusory, it's actual.)

Not spirits, but actual foxes. -Any- fox that got old enough had that ability. I also wish Pathfinder kitsune had the illusion ability that "real" kitsune had, of being able to make any old trash look like anything else. Pure illusion though, a katana made from a reed couldn't cut through a piece of paper. Faking gold from stones could be useful. :)