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According to the PFS Guide for Organized play:
You may always purchase the following items or equipment so long as you’re in an appropriately sized settlement (see above).
• All basic armor, gear, items, and weapons from Chapter 6 of the Core Rulebook, including Small and Large-sized items. This does not include equipment made from dragonhide, but it does include equipment made from
the other special materials, such as alchemical silver and cold iron
So, it seems that Adamantine weapons are "always available". Am I right about this? It looks cut and dry, but I feel like this shouldn't be allowed for some reason.
I have a 1st level character now, but I've GMed Skull and Shackles as an ongoing campaign and am considering applying that credit towards this character (a bloodrager). If I do this, at level 3 I'll be able to buy an Adamantine Bec de Corbin. Does anyone make sundering builds in PFS? At Level 5 I'd have Combat Reflexes, Power Attack, and Arcane Strike.
Thoughts?
Venture-Lieutenant, South Dakota—Rapid City
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You are correct! Adamantine is always available, it's just expensive. But as long as you got the gold, go ahead and make that purchase!
The only hiccup to sunder builds is that you may run across the strict GM who may remove items from the chronicle sheet since, well, they were destroyed. Ask about that first, then sunder away :)
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You are correct!
The only hiccup to sunder builds is that you may run across the strict GM who may remove items from the chronicle sheet since, well, they were destroyed. Ask about that first, then sunder away :)
So there's table variation with that, or is that the rule? Because I learned that if you find a potion and drink it you still gain the gold for it afterwards. Along those lines, it seems strange to take away the gold value of sundered armor (especially since armor can be repaired, whereas a consumed potion can't be returned to the bottle).
I could see some people getting really pissed at me if I sunder things and then they don't get the gold value for it at the end of the scenario. :-/
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Venture-Lieutenant, South Dakota—Rapid City
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Bah and I just found something in the guide making me wrong!
From pg 21 of the Guide 5.0, last paragraph:
If during a scenario you find
the +1 frost longsword from the example above and decide
to use it until the end of the adventure, but then you get
disarmed or it gets sundered, you are still able to buy that
item off the Chronicle sheet at the end of the scenario. While
this system isn’t entirely realistic, it removes an incredible
time sink from the play process (processing gear) and helps
keep the scenario on track, on time, and moving quickly.
So sunder away!
As another note, sundering the equipment shouldn't reduce gold: now gold is tied to encounters in almost all cases, so it's a matter of beating the encounter to get your rewards :)
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Most of the sunder builds I've seen in pfs have been spell sundering barbarians but it's occasionally been pretty useful. As long as it's not your only trick, go wild. And while it won't affect gold, you won't be able to use the loot during the scenario without repairing it. Again, generally not a big deal, but you sometimes run into cool loot mid-scenario.
[...] a consumed potion can't be returned to the bottle.
Not with that attitude!
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My Magus was a Sunder Specialist, but at the time our VC was really hostile towards Sunder builds, so I toned it down when he was around. He'd go so far as to alter tactics to Sunder other party members' gear just to get back at me (he's no longer our VC, though). Hopefully you won't encounter such a situation.
As long as you are familiar with the rules, and bring a chart with you so that the GM can determine if you've merely broken or utterly destroyed any particular item, you should be good to go.
As advice, it's not hard to get your Sunder CMB really high. Doing enough damage to destroy two-handed weapons and heavy armor is the trick. Look for Power Attack and get Breaking or Shattering as soon as possible.
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I'm looking at doing it a little differently -- not sure how well it will work yet.
Pitborn Tiefling Lunar Oracle with the Wrecker curse and as many natural attacks as I can get. (All attacks will ignore hardness up to Oracle level once I hit level 5.) I'll probably dip Barbarian, though I'm trying to avoid Breaker Barbarian as being too cheesy (for the ability to ignore one of the main parts of my curse).
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My Magus was a Sunder Specialist, but at the time our VC was really hostile towards Sunder builds, so I toned it down when he was around. He'd go so far as to alter tactics to Sunder other party members' gear just to get back at me (he's no longer our VC, though). Hopefully you won't encounter such a situation.
As long as you are familiar with the rules, and bring a chart with you so that the GM can determine if you've merely broken or utterly destroyed any particular item, you should be good to go.
As advice, it's not hard to get your Sunder CMB really high. Doing enough damage to destroy two-handed weapons and heavy armor is the trick. Look for Power Attack and get Breaking or Shattering as soon as possible.
How successful was he? Most NPCs are awful at sundering.
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How successful was he? Most NPCs are awful at sundering.My Magus was a Sunder Specialist, but at the time our VC was really hostile towards Sunder builds, so I toned it down when he was around. He'd go so far as to alter tactics to Sunder other party members' gear just to get back at me (he's no longer our VC, though). Hopefully you won't encounter such a situation.
As long as you are familiar with the rules, and bring a chart with you so that the GM can determine if you've merely broken or utterly destroyed any particular item, you should be good to go.
As advice, it's not hard to get your Sunder CMB really high. Doing enough damage to destroy two-handed weapons and heavy armor is the trick. Look for Power Attack and get Breaking or Shattering as soon as possible.
I know that there are at least some scenarios that have NPC's built to sunder.
As a player who has played a tables with another player playing a Sunder specalist, I have to say that I do not at all enjoy playing at tables with sunderers. I've been present fr near TPK's because a player tried to sunder every piece of gear an NPC had, doing reduced damage to the NPC because of Greater Sunder, while the rest of us were getting torn up, when he could have just put his attacks into th BBEG and helped end th encounter without any PC deaths. I've witnessed the same character decide i was a good idea to ruin confused PC's gear, not cool in my books.
Of course, it just depends on the player, but I don't enjoy playing alongside sunderers, for what it's worth.
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My dwarven cleric/fighter has sunder as one of several tools (combined with Growth domain and Goblin Cleave) - unlike say grapple build it isn't good as your main trick but as a situational tool (weapon on high hp npcs, holy symbols, when you want to subdue but the non lethal penalty is making you miss too often).
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Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento
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As a player who has played a tables with another player playing a Sunder specalist, I have to say that I do not at all enjoy playing at tables with sunderers. I've been present fr near TPK's because a player tried to sunder every piece of gear an NPC had, doing reduced damage to the NPC because of Greater Sunder, while the rest of us were getting torn up, when he could have just put his attacks into th BBEG and helped end th encounter without any PC deaths.
Well, not having seen his build or the NPC, it is entirely possible that he had a high enough sunder bonus to CMB that he could easily sunder, but would struggle to hit.
Or he could have just been playing badly.
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I'd recommend looking at half-orc for a sunder build. they get some feats (destroyer's blessing, smash,), Alternate Race Traits (Gatecrasher).
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My Magus was a Sunder Specialist, but at the time our VC was really hostile towards Sunder builds, so I toned it down when he was around. He'd go so far as to alter tactics to Sunder other party members' gear just to get back at me (he's no longer our VC, though). Hopefully you won't encounter such a situation.
If the tactics fit I have a monster sunder as well. I was DMing a demon and no one had a weapon to hurt it so someone pulled out a holy arrow to stab it. I had the demon try to sunder the arrow. Also in that same adventure at another teir I had that encounter sunder someones CLW.
It is usually not very expensive to fix a sundered item. Negative levels and ability drain can be more costly.
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Venture-Agent, Florida—Longwood
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Most of the sunder builds I've seen in pfs have been spell sundering barbarians but it's occasionally been pretty useful. As long as it's not your only trick, go wild. And while it won't affect gold, you won't be able to use the loot during the scenario without repairing it. Again, generally not a big deal, but you sometimes run into cool loot mid-scenario.
[...] a consumed potion can't be returned to the bottle.Not with that attitude!
Uh actually I've seen this happen several times...I know an alchemist who regularly uses Alchemical Allocation a spell that puts "used" potions back in the bottle.
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Uh actually I've seen this happen several times...I know an alchemist who regularly uses Alchemical Allocation a spell that puts "used" potions back in the bottle.Most of the sunder builds I've seen in pfs have been spell sundering barbarians but it's occasionally been pretty useful. As long as it's not your only trick, go wild. And while it won't affect gold, you won't be able to use the loot during the scenario without repairing it. Again, generally not a big deal, but you sometimes run into cool loot mid-scenario.
[...] a consumed potion can't be returned to the bottle.Not with that attitude!
Yes, it is magical mouth wash
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How is shattering supposed to work on objects? If it is unattended, I don't think you need an attack roll to hit, and if you are sundering, you are rolling cmb which doesn't have crits, right?
I don't see why you wouldn't be able to crit with a sunder maneuver. It requires an attack roll:
A critical hit means that you roll your damage more than once, with all your usual bonuses, and add the rolls together. Unless otherwise specified, the threat range for a critical hit on an attack roll is 20, and the multiplier is ×2.
Uh actually I've seen this happen several times...I know an alchemist who regularly uses Alchemical Allocation a spell that puts "used" potions back in the bottle.
Yep, I love that extract!
I suppose I could start another thread as this question is off topic, but I'll try it here first--Since I can use 2 PP to purchase a single item worth up to 750 gp, does a suit of armor with armor spikes added count? I could get a masterwork breastplate (200 + 150) with masterwork cold iron armor spikes (100 + 300), right?
How does that work with the rules for upgrading it to magical (since items bought with PP cannot be resold)? What I mean is, I know +1 enchantments are always available. Let's say I upgrade the above armor to +1 by spending 1,000 gp. Now I want to spend another 3,000 later to upgrade to +2. What is the total value of that item in terms of fame needed to upgrade? Is it 4,750? 3,750? 4,000? 3,000? I'm not sure how that would be calculated in PFS.
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Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento
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How is shattering supposed to work on objects? If it is unattended, I don't think you need an attack roll to hit, and if you are sundering, you are rolling cmb which doesn't have crits, right?I don't see why you wouldn't be able to crit with a sunder maneuver. It requires an attack roll:
** spoiler omitted **
It seems to be a grey area. The section on CMB copied the auto hit/ auto miss language from attack rolls, but not the crit language.
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I suppose I could start another thread as this question is off topic, but I'll try it here first--Since I can use 2 PP to purchase a single item worth up to 750 gp, does a suit of armor with armor spikes added count? I could get a masterwork breastplate (200 + 150) with masterwork cold iron armor spikes (100 + 300), right?How does that work with the rules for upgrading it to magical (since items bought with PP cannot be resold)? What I mean is, I know +1...
That seems to be a legal 2pp purchase. The question is does armor+armor spikes count as 1 item or 2, if it is 1 than that purchase works, but enchanting both is going to be very hard on Fame Prereqs.
As for upgrading it, you can add +1 as weapon or armor any time (always available), but you'll otherwise need Fame = to the total value of the item not just what you've paid for it. So for +2 armor you'd need enough fame for a 4,750gp item not a 4,000gp item
You can critical hit on a Sunder maneuver, but it won't mean much as objects are immune to them.I don't see why you wouldn't be able to crit with a sunder maneuver. It requires an attack roll:
If you have Greater Sunder, would there possibly be higher damage passed through to the NPC?
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Sunder is a tool, like anything else. Sundering a key NPC weapon might be well worth it, but sounds like this guy was just playing it very poorly.
Like anything else, just doing one thing all the time regardless of the situation is normally not a good idea.
Is it a vampire cleric and you decide to sunder his Mace? Usually won't have much effect since its slams will probably be very nearly as tough. So don't do it.
Is it an anti-paladin with the Plague Bringer Unholy Sword of Insta-Death? Hella yeah! Sunder that that sword to pieces.
Is it a fighter that has a bunch of combat feats (some GM's will just tell you, some will have you make some sort of wisdom or skill/BaB level check to recognize his fighting capabilities) like focus, specialization, improved crit, etc... with his great axe? Sunder it and he loses use of all those feats.
Is it a high level wizard and you want to sunder his Spell Component Pouch (or a cleric's Holy Symbol)? That might be a good idea if you think your group can't take him down in one round.
If you use the ability with thought and planning, it can be an excellent addition to your list. If you will use it all the time no matter what? Then just leave it out of the build.
Is it an ogre with a great club? Don't bother.
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NOTE:
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For PFS play, I would seriously suggest bookmarking or printing out the tables of hardness and HP of common items. ...Having that information, and the information on how Sunder works and how enchanting things affects their hardness and HP, really makes things go much smoother.
Please, please, please do this! I know that when I GM, I never have all that crap memorized. It will assist greatly and help reduce the chance of poor impressions if you have these handy.
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I suppose I could start another thread as this question is off topic, but I'll try it here first--Since I can use 2 PP to purchase a single item worth up to 750 gp, does a suit of armor with armor spikes added count? I could get a masterwork breastplate (200 + 150) with masterwork cold iron armor spikes (100 + 300), right?How does that work with the rules for upgrading it to magical (since items bought with PP cannot be resold)? What I mean is, I know +1...
That seems to be a legal 2pp purchase. The question is does armor+armor spikes count as 1 item or 2, if it is 1 than that purchase works, but enchanting both is going to be very hard on Fame Prereqs.
As for upgrading it, you can add +1 as weapon or armor any time (always available), but you'll otherwise need Fame = to the total value of the item not just what you've paid for it. So for +2 armor you'd need enough fame for a 4,750gp item not a 4,000gp item
Right, and then presumably if you sold it later you'd get just 2,000, not 2,375. Thanks! That makes a lot of sense.
The reason I assumed that armor + armor spikes equals one item is because armor spikes are listed on the armor chart of the CRB as "extras" and the cost is "+50gp" instead of just "50 gp". I might be splitting hairs, but I felt that distinction meant that it is an add-on to a piece of armor and is, therefore, one item. I'm not sure how it would work if you wanted to add an armored kilt to an armor purchase used with PP, though.
Ok, one more question--so I know that I can sell all gear back at full value as long as I'm Level 1 (stuff bought with gold, not PP). Suppose I finish my 3rd scenario and get my 3rd XP. Can I sell all of my stuff back at full value, after the scenario is done, BEFORE leveling up to Level 2?
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Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento
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You can critical hit on a Sunder maneuver, but it won't mean much as objects are immune to them.I don't see why you wouldn't be able to crit with a sunder maneuver. It requires an attack roll:
Well, if you have Shattering on your weapon, getting a critical on an object is an extra 1-3 d10s of damage, so it is kind of important.