| Ryieahna |
Ok, I'm working on this build, and I come across some cool stuff, but even more than that I'm coming up with several points of confusion that I've not been able to find a clear answer for.
The Build I'm looking at is a Druid/Fighter with feats chaining up to Rapid Grappler. (Improved Grapple, Greater Grapple, Rapid Grappler). For role-play flavor reasons I intend to primarily wild shape as a dire tiger. Here are my questions, hopefully you can clarify!
1. What is the difference between maintaining a grapple (As with the standard action or move action with Greater Grapple) and making a "grapple combat maneuver check" as with Rapid Grappler?
2. Is a druid's (or other creature's) rake comparable to a summoner's eidolon's so that you get your rake attacks for every successful check to maintain a grapple?
3. The FAQ states that you still get a full attack while grappling; how does this combine, if at all, with maintaining, dealing damage with the grapple check, and the rake attacks above?
| 666bender |
Think of grapple as 2 actions :
1) start a grapple
2) maintain ( every thing that isn't initiate)
With animal that had several attacks and grab you got several options :
Bite >>grab >> :
option 1 : move action greater grapple , swift action rapid grapple. .
Option 2: attack 2 regular claws while grapping .
Round 2: as you start round grappling - get 2 free rakes. Than:
if you let go , go above .
If you maintain as move action. , go again with rapid and than standard as either attCk or another grapple.
So: no full attack while maintaining, and no one ( eidolon included ) has rake on initiate round or every attack.
A tip: dip not in fighter, but in maneuver master monk.... Tha. You can grapple to maintain and full attack / learn trip for binding throw etc.
| Ryieahna |
Think of grapple as 2 actions :
1) start a grapple
2) maintain ( every thing that isn't initiate)With animal that had several attacks and grab you got several options :
Bite >>grab >> :
option 1 : move action greater grapple , swift action rapid grapple. .
Option 2: attack 2 regular claws while grapping .Round 2: as you start round grappling - get 2 free rakes. Than:
if you let go , go above .
If you maintain as move action. , go again with rapid and than standard as either attCk or another grapple.So: no full attack while maintaining, and no one ( eidolon included ) has rake on initiate round or every attack.
A tip: dip not in fighter, but in maneuver master monk.... Tha. You can grapple to maintain and full attack / learn trip for binding throw etc.
As far as I know I do get a full attack while grappling, without needing levels in monk (The second example below is using flurry as an example, but it does clarify for things besides flurry as well).
Sources:
More Recent Paizo FAQ
Older copy of FAQ on PFSRD
The eidolon rake rules, to clarify:
An eidolon grows dangerous claws on its feet, allowing it to make 2 rake attacks on foes it is grappling. These attacks are primary attacks. The eidolon receives these additional attacks each time it succeeds on a grapple check against the target. These rake attacks deal 1d4 points of damage (1d6 if Large, 1d8 if Huge). This evolution is only available to eidolons of the quadruped base form. This evolution counts as one natural attack toward the eidolon’s maximum. The summoner must be at least 4th level before selecting this evolution.
Source: Advanced Player's Guide
So that's where my confusion is coming from on those two aspects. The other clarification I'm looking for is the difference between "maintaining the grapple" in Greater Grapple and "grapple combat maneuver check" in Rapid Grappler.
| Noctani |
666bender wrote:Think of grapple as 2 actions :
1) start a grapple
2) maintain ( every thing that isn't initiate)With animal that had several attacks and grab you got several options :
Bite >>grab >> :
option 1 : move action greater grapple , swift action rapid grapple. .
Option 2: attack 2 regular claws while grapping .Round 2: as you start round grappling - get 2 free rakes. Than:
if you let go , go above .
If you maintain as move action. , go again with rapid and than standard as either attCk or another grapple.So: no full attack while maintaining, and no one ( eidolon included ) has rake on initiate round or every attack.
A tip: dip not in fighter, but in maneuver master monk.... Tha. You can grapple to maintain and full attack / learn trip for binding throw etc.
As far as I know I do get a full attack while grappling, without needing levels in monk (The second example below is using flurry as an example, but it does clarify for things besides flurry as well).
Sources:
More Recent Paizo FAQ
Older copy of FAQ on PFSRDThe eidolon rake rules, to clarify:
** spoiler omitted **
So that's where my confusion is coming from on those two aspects. The other clarification I'm...
Read closer, yeah you can full attack, but the moment you choose to not maintain a grapple the grapple breaks. I suppose it's not as much as problem because whenever you make an attack with grab you can redo it, but you'll be missing out on the +5 to sustain.