Dual wielding pistols?

[ChumbaWumba]

Do pistols count as light weapons when using the two weapon feat?
Also does the beneficial bandolier effect happen every turn so I wouldn't need to reload a single shot gun ever?

[Nefreet]

Pistols are not light weapons, they are one-handed. If you somehow find a way to dual-wield pistols, your attacks would be at -4/-4 after taking the Two-Weapon Fighting feat.

I'll leave the other question for players that use shotguns. I've only ever used Pistols and Muskets.

[Gilarius]

ChumbaWumba wrote:

Do pistols count as light weapons when using the two weapon feat?

Also does the beneficial bandolier effect happen every turn so I wouldn't need to reload a single shot gun ever?

Unlike Nefreet, I think you need to ask your GM whether pistols count as light weapons or not for dual wielding in his/her game. The rules don't actually state the answer either way. There are many threads arguing the case if you look.

The beneficial Bandolier does indeed work once per round, using your swift action. But you will still be wanting to get rid of it as soon as you can afford a belt of Dex. Because you'll get iterative attacks, rapid reload, rapid shot and maybe a double barrelled pistol.

[Nefreet]

Ultimate Combat lists all the various pistols as one-handed weapons. In fact, there are no firearms listed as light weapons.

[Werebat]

Nefreet wrote:

Ultimate Combat lists all the various pistols as one-handed weapons. In fact, there are no firearms listed as light weapons.

Yeah, but it's an inconvenient truth to the sort of player who would create a dual-wielding gunslinger with intelligent ioun stones of Reloading Hands and a prehensile moustache.

In fact, aren't those pesky gun jam rules all sort of optional? Ask your GM.

[Michael Sayre]

Why is it even a big deal anyways? By 6th level you can pile on the -4 for TWF and the -2 for Rapid Shot and still have better odds of hitting than half the party (not to mention like twice as many attacks). By 10th level you can pile on an additional -3 for Deadly Aim, no problem. By 12th or so you can add the -4 for firing two barrels of a double-barreled weapon and still have a better chance to hit in most encounters than your allies.

[Claxon]

Yeah...the penalties to hit are irrelevant.

Dual wielding gunslingers cause a lot of hurt feelings.

[Michael Sayre]

You know what the AC of an ancient White Dragon is? 37. His touch AC? 8. You've already shaved 29 points of AC off the critter just by picking up a gun. You can afford an additional -2 for dual-wielding one-handed weapons. Note that it makes sense thematically as well; regardless of how small the gun is, it's still going to kick.

[ChumbaWumba]

What would be some good items for a gunslinger to have other than the belt of dex?

[Kazaan]

The only firearm I could even remotely see as being counted as light for TWF would be a Derringer (Coat Pistol). You could probably say its the equivalent of a hand crossbow. But that would, ultimately, be a houserule; the light/1-h/2-h categories were originally designed for melee weapons. You'll note that ranged weapons are "treated as <effort category> for TWF penalties" and the "one-handed" and "two-handed" designations specific to firearms are subtly different from the equivalents used for melee weapons.

[cnetarian]

ChumbaWumba wrote:

What would be some good items for a gunslinger to have other than the belt of dex?

wand of abundant ammunition is my number one choice for a magic item on a gunslinger.

slate spider(s) are my second choice after dex and weapons for enchants.

if you can talk your GM into accepting that gun training is a form of weapon training for the purposes of gloves of dueling (which is not unreasonable) then the gloves are very nice, +2 dmg per attack for only 15,oooGP.

[TheBulletKnight]

Also, a pitol of the infinite sky is great. It's a +5 pistol that you never have to load for the low, low price of 73,300 gp. Two would only cost 146,600 gp. Or 14,660 pp. At a retailer most likely halfway acrossed the continent. While supplies last, subject to gm discretion.