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How can i use nature attacks in addition flurry of blows? I can`t use them anyway even if they are secondary, i can use them only if i have Feral combat traning with them or i can always use them as secondary if i do not use limb they are attached in flurry?
P.s: breath weapon - how i must use it? it is just a natural weapon (primary or secondart), it is not a weapon and takes standard or full action?
(yes, i have realy poor attentiveness, do not beat me please D:)
Breath weapons are not weapons and require a standard action to use.
Natural Attacks work the same way with flurry that they do with any other attack sequence. They are secondary attacks at -5 to hit. While you can't punch someone with the same hand you clawed them with, you can still knee and/or headbutt them whilst clawing them.
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... But, according to the FAQ you cannot make any additional attacks then you would otherwise get with a FoB
Feral Combat Training: What does “with” in the Special line for this feat mean for monks making a flurry of blows?
Normally a monk who has natural attacks (such as a lizardfolk monk with claw attacks) cannot use those natural attacks as part of a flurry of blows (Core Rulebook 57). Feral Combat Training allows you to use the selected natural attack as if it were a monk weapon—you can use it as one of your flurry of blows attacks, use it to deploy special attacks that require you to use a monk weapon, apply the effects of the natural weapon (such as a poisonous bite) for each flurry of blows attack, and so on.
The feat does not allow you to make your normal flurry of blows attack sequence plus one or more natural attacks with the natural weapon. In other words, if you can flurry for four attacks per round, with this feat you still only make four attacks per round... but any number of those attacks may be with the selected natural weapon.
Which is why it may be "better" to take an archetype that loses Flurry (Like Master of Many Styles). and just take the TWF chain if you really want a large number of attacks. The second FAQ for FCT allows you to increase the damage of your natural attacks as your UAS damage increases and when you use a feat like Dragon Style (so you can get 1.5x STR to damage).
Feral Combat Training and Unarmed Strike Damage: Does this allow me to use my monk unarmed damage with the selected natural attack?
Yes. The feat says you can apply "effects that augment an unarmed strike," and the monk's increased unarmed damage counts as such.
Take multiattack and reduce the natural attack penalty to -2 and you're good to go.
And I don't think breath weapons will work with this...
You cannot add natural attacks to a Flurry of Blows, and you can only choose one natural attack to Flurry with using Feral Combat Training.
Is there an FAQ I missed? I couldn't see anything in FoB to that effect. And natural attacks specifically allows them in combination with unarmed attacks (with the no doubling up limbs proviso).
last paragraph of FoB
A monk applies his full Strength bonus to his damage rolls for all successful attacks made with flurry of blows, whether the attacks are made with an off-hand or with a weapon wielded in both hands. A monk may substitute disarm, sunder, and trip combat maneuvers for unarmed attacks as part of a flurry of blows. A monk cannot use any weapon other than an unarmed strike or a special monk weapon as part of a flurry of blows. A monk with natural weapons cannot use such weapons as part of a flurry of blows, nor can he make natural attacks in addition to his flurry of blows attacks.
Doh! I missed that :(
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And if your are playing PFS the only legal way to get Multiattack (that I know of) is by taking 10 levels of Ranger w/Natural Weapon combat style.
Even if you "qualify" for the feat sooner, it isn't available from "another legal source" until it becomes available as a 10th level combat feat choice.
At least that's what I was told on the PFS forums. It seems reasonable enough.
WHY can't you use natural attacks, like a bite, in conjunction with FoB? A half-orc Ranger or Fighter with the toothy trait and TWF is be able to make all his TWF attacks and bite as a secondary weapon with -5, and so can most of the weapon wielding monsters and NPCs. Is there any word from the developers as to why they made the monk unable to do so?
The most probable reason I can think of is they thought it would be too complicated to explain the differences between unarmed attacks and natural attacks working together: "You CAN use your claw as an unarmed strike, but if you do you CAN'T attack with you Claws as "Claws", but you CAN use your bite along with your Claws, regardless of them beeing used as claws or unarmed strikes".
I understand this is something difficult to explain, but after a few years I'm sure we can come up with something.
Make it a contest! "Who ever can explain this best in one paragrapsh (short) wins a "Pathfinder's War Chest"; Core Rulebook, Bestiary, some dice and a box of Donuts!"
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The reason why is the devs specifically denied it for game balance reasons. Flurry is not allowed to stack with rapid/many shot, natural attacks, and anything else except for ki and haste. Does this make any logical sense at all? No. I'm okay with it as a player, because that means I won't have to ever face a 20 headed hydra with monk levels with flurry + 20 bites..
If you want to explain it, as a monk the discipline required to flurry requires a focus that does not allow natural attacks without special training.
The reason why is because flurry is already extremely strong... if you can work around the quirks (I like sohei so I can use armor and polearms).
The reason for this is simple: you get full strength on every hit, and you get full power attack on every hit. And if you are 2 handing a weapon, you get 1.5x power attack on every hit. And you can do this with only a single weapon, instead of having to buy 2 like a TWF build. That is how monks eke out their damage normally.
To balance out that strength, they prevent all the weird build people always go on about. If you need an explanation, then it is this: flurry of blows requires a highly specialized stance and chain of attacks, and they would be ruined if you had to wiggle your hips around to do a tail attack, or if you leaned the top half of your body to do a bite. You can incorporate these body parts into the style, but that requires specialized training (FCT) and that forces the body parts to fall into the same rhythm as the rest of the stance.
I don't know, Double Slice can already make any TWF Fighter/Ranger/Barbarian do full STR damage on every hit, and not only Power Attack does't seem to be an optimal feat choice, it seems it's intent was to deal only full STR for monks using 2h weapons on FoB as well, but the wording they used to write it make it's bonus damage be based on the weapon rather then how it's used.
It don't see the balance when some other classes are better at TWF than the monk and can also use secondary weapons along in a full-attack while the monk can't.
What the monk does have is it's IUS damage, and since he already uses a Amulet of Mighty Fists to enhance his "unarmed" attacks, this amulet that's already bought and paid for would be also enhancing the other natural weapons for "free", different from other weapon wielding classes...
The way it is, it seems something like a Warpriest with unarmed strike as a favored weapon will be getting the best of both worlds.
Still, I miss a more solid explanation to Why (mechanically, not fluffy), something not so based on our infinitly possible interpretations.
The difference is, that in order for TWF fighting to be as good as Flurry you'll be spending around 4 feat, TWF, ITWF, GTWF, Doubleslice and you need to enchant two weapons.
The reason is balance in the mind of the devs. No further explanation required.