If I find a magic item, I can sell it for half price. What about crafting a magic item? Do I sell it for half price or full? If I sell it for full price, when does it turn after a half price sell? After I wear it? Never?
If I find a magic item, I can sell it for half price. What about crafting a magic item? Do I sell it for half price or full? If I sell it for full price, when does it turn after a half price sell? After I wear it? Never?
A 20,000 gp magic item represents a 10,000 gp markup. If an ordinary merchant could make that kind of sale every other year, that's still an absolutely huge return-on-investment that would make a typical salt merchant or butcher leap for joy.
So, basically, you get full price if you're willing to put literally years into finding a buyer.
Owner - D20 Hobbies
|
If I find a magic item, I can sell it for half price. What about crafting a magic item? Do I sell it for half price or full? If I sell it for full price, when does it turn after a half price sell? After I wear it? Never?
Sell everything at half.
The rules prohibit making a profit making items.
If I find a magic item, I can sell it for half price. What about crafting a magic item? Do I sell it for half price or full? If I sell it for full price, when does it turn after a half price sell? After I wear it? Never?Sell everything at half.
The rules prohibit making a profit making items.
Absolutely incorrect. The Hedge Magician trait allows you to make a profit, and Ravingdork's magic capital-focused build gives a 1:10 return.
Quick and dirty if you want to make a profit?
Use 10+Caster level as the Skill DC for a crafter check. Treat that as your Crafter DC, and silver pieces per day.
Multiply by 8 hour days you need to work on the item. Voila, you just received a Crafter's wages. There is your profit.
==Aelryinth
|
Owner - D20 Hobbies
|
Absolutely incorrect. The Hedge Magician trait allows you to make a profit, and Ravingdork's magic capital-focused build gives a 1:10 return.
Both are corner cases or potentially open to rules debates.
Raving Dork's Magical capital is used to make items but the rules say it is:
Magic: Magic represents magical power at your disposal. Some activities, such as healing sick peasants in the slums or constructing a magical library, specifically require yo to spend Magic.
Some could say healing or books on magic are not making items.
Traits: all traits are legal except for the following: Hedge Magician
Quests & Campaigns: Feats: Expert Trainer is legal
Neither are legal in PFS, which is where they tend to only allow reasonable rules with reasonable adherence to the "spirit of the game".
So my statement depends on the intended design of the rules and the general concept that there should be no way to profit from making items directly. Even the business rules in Ultimate Campaign only allow you to make monthly profit. They don't allow for "per item" profit.
The other (I shant name names) "edition" that has the brand has crafting at full price and PC/others would purchase said items at a markup (10 to 40 percent). Selling was still at half price...
Ugh.
Assuming you are meaning 3.X D&D, that is incorrect. Crafting was also at half price, as was selling. The only difference in costs between the systems is Pathfinder did away with the XP costs. Any markup above and beyond the magic items price was purely a homebrew rule.
|
Fabricate + Raw materials = easy markups for master crafted items... even at 50% (sale price).
ANY crafting is PFS illegal, so why did that even come up?
Another thing you can do is take engineering and get ahold of a Lyre of Building - using dirt to make mansions! All you need is the property rights and you can make about 18-20 mansions a day (well, 1/wk) with a few decent Fort Rolls (12-16 without a decent Fort). Let's face it, 25 for masterwork is NOT HARD to hit, even at level 5 (when you could afford a lyre). Rent them for 1000gp a month? Even 100 gp a month. Didn't cost you anything, after all. Repeat every week until you have a nice steady residual income.
In answer to the original question: all crafted and found magic items are sold at half price (crafting cost basically) - unless you have feats, skills, or abilities that let you make money on the deal. Be glad you don't have to go to a REAL pawn shop where you'd only get 10-25% value. Also, there are some campaigns/modules where you meet merchants, that if properly influenced, buy at slightly higher prices.
I have to go with James Risner on this. Otherwise why would the spell "Masterwork Transformation" exist?Fabricate + Raw materials = easy markups for master crafted items... even at 50% (sale price).Debated, whether or not you can make masterwork things as opposed to rough examples.
To turn already crafted items into masterwork items.
You convert material of one sort into a product that is of the same material. Creatures or magic items cannot be created or transmuted by the fabricate spell. The quality of items made by this spell is commensurate with the quality of material used as the basis for the new fabrication. If you work with a mineral, the target is reduced to 1 cubic foot per level instead of 10 cubic feet.
You must make an appropriate Craft check to fabricate articles requiring a high degree of craftsmanship.
That sounds like a masterwork item to me.
|
Owner - D20 Hobbies
|
That sounds like a masterwork item to me.
You must make an appropriate Craft check to fabricate articles requiring a high degree of craftsmanship.
It sounds like "make a crude chair" as opposed to "make a pile of rocks out of sand".
You not notice I said debated? There is no generally agreed upon side.
That sounds like a masterwork item to me.
You must make an appropriate Craft check to fabricate articles requiring a high degree of craftsmanship.It sounds like "make a crude chair" as opposed to "make a pile of rocks out of sand".
You not notice I said debated? There is no generally agreed upon side.
"A crude chair" doesn't require a high degree of craftsmanship. A finely made chair, with an upholstered seat, and carved decorations, does. Likewise, a simple knife doesn't require a high degree of craftsmanship. A masterwork blade does.
Its only debatable if you don't know what "high degree of craftsmanship" means.
Quick question;Have you ever made a chair?
Yes. My family own a woodshop. I've worked there since I was old enough to know to not put my hand in the saw blade. I have made many, many chairs in my life. AS well as tables, dressers, cabinets, etc. It isn't hard.
Have you ever made a knife?
From totally raw materials? No. From a sheet of steel and a grinder? Yes. Not a good one though. But passable.
Why wouldn't they mention that it could even create masterwork items. High craftmanship could mean complex items instead of masterwork.
Complex items are, by definition, items with a Craft DC of 20. Masterwork items also have a Craft DC of 20. Masterwork items, by definition, are finely crafted versions of normal items. If Fabricate is capable of making complex items, why wouldn't it be capable of making masterwork items? Both are, by definition, just as difficult to create.
... Fox News has education? How hard can it be to go "LALALALALA CAN'T HEAR YOU!!! I AM ALWAYS RIGHT EVEN WHEN YOU SHOW ME QUOTES BY MYSELF SAYING THE OPPOSITE!"Unless of course you've completed your internship at Fox News.Its only debatable if you don't know what "high degree of craftsmanship" means.This is RAW.
It is only debatable when different people have different interpretations for the words.
You can't just assert you are right and the other side has no ground.
Of course. They have long courses on how to get the pitch just right and how to plug your ears completely without damaging them.
Fabricate + Raw materials = easy markups for master crafted items... even at 50% (sale price).Debated, whether or not you can make masterwork things as opposed to rough examples.
Aren't armors or weapons made from special materials (like Mithril) automatically considered masterwork? If so, wouldn't any Mithril armor made with Fabricate be masterwork?
|
|
One has to presume that "a high degree of craftsmanship" means that you make a crafting roll... and go by the results. Since it says in ENTIRETY "You must make an appropriate Craft check to fabricate articles requiring a high degree of craftsmanship." - That implies "you CAN make articles requiring a high degree of craftsmanship, if you make your required (to make them) Craft check."
Why is this debated?
Mithril, Adamantine, etc... are all masterwork items and can be Fabricated with the proper raw materials. So why would the "magic" of the spell have a harder time with other mundane materials like wood and iron? Silly notion.
|
Fabricate
School transmutation; Level sorcerer/wizard 5
Casting Time see text
Components V, S, M (the original material, which costs the same amount as the raw materials required to craft the item to be created)
Range close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Target up to 10 cu. ft./level; see text
Duration instantaneous
Saving Throw none; Spell Resistance no
You convert material of one sort into a product that is of the same material. Creatures or magic items cannot be created or transmuted by the fabricate spell. The quality of items made by this spell is commensurate with the quality of material used as the basis for the new fabrication. If you work with a mineral, the target is reduced to 1 cubic foot per level instead of 10 cubic feet.
You must make an appropriate Craft check to fabricate articles requiring a high degree of craftsmanship.
Casting requires 1 round per 10 cubic feet of material to be affected by the spell.
In some cases, the fabricate spell can be used to achieve the results of a Craft check with no actual check involved. You must still make an appropriate Craft check when using the spell to make articles requiring a high degree of craftsmanship.
....Create Masterwork Items: You can make a masterwork item: a weapon, suit of armor, shield, or tool that conveys a bonus on its use through its exceptional craftsmanship. To create a masterwork item, you create the masterwork component as if it were a separate item in addition to the standard item. The masterwork component has its own price (300 gp for a weapon or 150 gp for a suit of armor or a shield, see Equipment for the price of other masterwork tools) and a Craft DC of 20. Once both the standard component and the masterwork component are completed, the masterwork item is finished. The cost you pay for the masterwork component is one-third of the given amount, just as it is for the cost in raw materials.
You can use fabricate to craft the masterwork component? Yes.
I cost 1/3 of the masterwork component price.The spell explicitly say "The quality of items made by this spell is commensurate with the quality of material used as the basis for the new fabrication."? Yes, so if you use a masterwork component you get a masterwork item.
You simply need two casting of the spell, one to make the masterwork component, one to make the final item.
|
|
Note that the wizard should spend skill point in the appropriate crafting skills and that he can't take 10 on the crafting skill check while casting a spell as he is distracted from the crafting check by the act of casting (they happen at the same time).
So our 20 intelligence wizard to be sure to be successful when making the masterwork item need 11 ranks in the crafting skill. he can substitute some of them with another spell, Crafter's Fortune.
With that spell he get: int 20 +5, Crafter's Fortune +5, class skill +3 = 13, so he need a 6 skill ranks and 2 spells to be always successful.
I don't think that he would benefit from masterwork tools as he is not using them, he is using a spell.
So a 9th level wizard with 1 1st level spell, 2 5th level spell, 100 gp of material for the masterwork component and 5 gp of components for the sword can make a masterwork longsword that he can sell at 157.5 gp.
Net profit 52.5 gp.
Assuming that he is doing that all days of the week for a month and that the market can absorb that many masterwork longswords, he get 1,575 gp.
- * -
The hedge magician trait say:
Hedge Magician: You apprenticed for a time to a craftsman who often built magic items, and he taught you many handy shortcuts and cost-saving techniques. Whenever you craft a magic item, you reduce the required gp cost to make the item by 5%.
So if he is crafting a normal speed, 1,000 gp of magical item in 1 day, he reduce the crafting cost by 5% of the cost, i.e. 5% of 5000 gp, for a net profit of 25 gp.
They become 50 gp only if he craft a double speed. But then he need a market capable to absorb an almost unlimited number of magic items worth 2,000 gp.- * -
Note this piece fo text:
Selling Treasure
In general, a character can sell something for half its listed price, including weapons, armor, gear, and magic items. This also includes character-created items.
Trade goods are the exception to the half-price rule. A trade good, in this sense, is a valuable good that can be easily exchanged almost as if it were cash itself.
"In general". All the other rules about selling loot and crafted items are subject to those 2 words.
Essentially, it is the GM duty to decide if the loot can be sold and at what price. for simplicity sake we all go with the half price part, but if you start selling hundred of masterwork weapon in a city with one thousand inhabitant you flood the market very rapidly.Even hundred of normal weapons will flood that market rapidly.
Even vorse if youa re selling magical items.
|
|
Which in my opinion is way to much for the effort put in. Technically speaking he could be doing all that AND use hedge magician to earn an extra 50 gp per day of crafting magic items. That nets him a little more than 3k gold per month. Imagine being an elf and spending a decade doing that. You'd have 360k gold minus living expenses. Assuming he lives at an Inn with a reasonably comfortable living it would be 3 gold per day. That ends up at 350k gold. (approx)...
That is a very rich elf. If you are worried about making too many masterwork longswords, then make greatswords (with extra profit) or other weapons. Worried about flooding the market around you? Teleport to a new location.
You are adding spell after spell to do that. And have a guy that is working 7 days/week for 10 years.
Each teleport is a fabricate that you don't cast and a 3% chance of finding yourself somewhere that is not your intended destination.
Some historical data give us a percentage of armed forces of about 3% of the population in areas with a high number of soldiers. Let's say that 1 out of then can buy a masterwork weapon. In a 10.000 person city we can sell a grand total of 30 masterwork weapon.
We can be generous, wealthy people will buy them even if they aren't really trained in using them, that can be another 1-2% of the population. Let's say we can sell a grand total of 200 different masterwork weapons.
7 months of work.
To sell every day 1 masterwork weapon for 10 years our elf need to know 20 cities with 10.000 inhabitants and teleport to each of those and back to sell his wares.
Our guy can teleport to a barely know location that probably has visited several year ago (remember, he is crafting his swords every day, no time to travel) with a bag of holding full of 7 months of his production and hope to sell them to a barely know merchant as a single sale.
200 sword * 157.5 gp = 31.500 gp
No merchant in a small city can but them, their limits for a single purchase is 25.000 gp.
So he has to visit 2 merchants in that city to sell the stuff. Bargain with them, wait while they retire the money from the bank of Adabar and so on. Welcome to merchants & profiteers.
Note that every time he teleport he risk to mis-teleport and end in the middle of the lake Encartan, the ocean, a volcano or some other interesting location, like the market square of the nearest drow city.
|
|
And the rest of the party what has done in that 5 years? Or we are speaking of NPCs?
If we speak of NPC, Venetian and Florentine merchants amassed enormous fortunes in their time.
Conceivably an elf can spend 10 years amassing a fortune and then join a new party with character of his level while his old companion have become middle aged or even old and have retired but it is hard to forge the same kind of bond he had with people with which he has adventured from level 1. Doing that would mean joining a group of barely know people, people that routinely kill adversaries and loot their possessions, as the new guy with a lot of money. Not always a good prospect.
Some of them could get interesting thoughts in their minds.
|
|
I would have said 3.x, which loosely includes PF, if I had meant that edition. I was refering to the one after that, with the amusing videos at the release that was played at Gen Con. ("I'm a Monster... Rawr!")
The point was that in the succeeding edition, the cost of making items got worse, and the selling of them lowered WBL and realistically would mean that Magical Items would have been very rare, as they would only be made when needed, not to sell.
This current system in PF is about the same as 3.X except there is no EXP expenditure.
Do you think the fabrication spell is relevant to crafting magic items, or just to craft regular items?
Note that 'high craftsmanship' can ALSO refer to
'any target DC over 10'. Plenty of items require more then DC 10 to be made, such as the heavier armors.
However, it's already been ruled that Fabricate can make masterwork items and totally bypass the Crafting process.
If you want to fix Fabricate, simply have it instantaneously accomplish one day of crafting labor. That makes it a crafting accelerator, but not a complete replacement. Someone with devoted crafting skills could still make an item faster then a wizard casting one spell and only a couple ranks in the skill.
==Aelryinth
it's already been ruled that Fabricate can make masterwork items and totally bypass the Crafting process.Link, as that is in debate.
I never bothered to check, but it is in the FAQ.