Racial Heritage and Dwarven Dorn-Derger

[talast]

In the "Dwarves of Golarion" page 21, there is a new weapon:

Dwarven Dorn-Dergar: This exotic weapon is a 10-foot-long, heavy metal chain weighted at the end by a round ball of solid iron about
the size of a large fist. By adjusting the slack of the chain, the weapon can be used either with or without reach. Changing between using
it as a normal weapon and a reach weapon is a move action. Though fallen into disuse over the spanning centuries, the dorn-dergar is
still sometimes employed by dwarves who cling to the old ways.
Dwarves treat dorn-dergars as martial weapons.

From APG:

Racial Heritage
The blood of a non-human ancestor flows in your veins.
Prerequisite: Human.
Benefit: Choose another humanoid race. You count as both human and that race for any effects related to race. For example, if you choose dwarf, you are considered both a human and a dwarf for the purpose of taking traits, feats, how spells and magic items affect you, and so on.

Because of the last sentence from the Dwarven Dorn-Dergar, am I to assume that even though a human who doesn't have the "weapon familiarity" trait, the Racial Heritage feat allows him to treat the Dwarven Dorn-Derger as a martial weapon?

[Rhatahema]

I think another way to look at the question is "Does a dwarf need weapon familiarity to treat the dorn-dergar as a martial weapon?". I think the intent is that yes, you need weapon familiarity as a racial trait, and that the line in the description of the dorn-derger is simply reiterating the function of weapon familiarity.

[James Risner]

Rhatahema wrote:

I think another way to look at the question is "Does a dwarf need weapon familiarity to treat the dorn-dergar as a martial weapon?". I think the intent is that yes, you need weapon familiarity as a racial trait, and that the line in the description of the dorn-derger is simply reiterating the function of weapon familiarity.

+1

@OP: Keep in mind, there isn't any clear cut rules one way or another. So if you reject this view and assert that you should get it, then welcome to table variance. Because you won't be able to convince every GM that is true.

[lemeres]

James Risner wrote:

Rhatahema wrote:

I think another way to look at the question is "Does a dwarf need weapon familiarity to treat the dorn-dergar as a martial weapon?". I think the intent is that yes, you need weapon familiarity as a racial trait, and that the line in the description of the dorn-derger is simply reiterating the function of weapon familiarity.

+1

@OP: Keep in mind, there isn't any clear cut rules one way or another. So if you reject this view and assert that you should get it, then welcome to table variance. Because you won't be able to convince every GM that is true.

There is an entirely separate alternate racial trait that covers the issue though. The adopted trait gives you another race's language and weapon familiarities. So, since that exists.....does it really matter if racial heritage doesn't cover this?

Ok, the optimizer in me can think of ways (1 feat for humans, and how people whined until they got half-elves/orcs to work under racial heritage), but the point still remains- there is another ability that deals with this issue, which implies that racial heritage might not do so.

[James Risner]

lemeres wrote:

The adopted trait gives you another race's language and weapon familiarities.

This adopted?

How is that getting you a racial trait? Instead of the race trait it says you get?

Or are you thinking of some other Adopted trait?

[Cardinal Chunder]

From APG:

Racial Heritage
The blood of a non-human ancestor flows in your veins.
Prerequisite: Human.
Benefit: Choose another humanoid race. You count as both human and that race for any effects related to race. For example, if you choose dwarf, you are considered both a human and a dwarf for the purpose of taking traits, feats, how spells and magic items affect you, and so on.

It irks me a tad when Pazio prints this and in another product (Bastards of Golarion I think) spend time explaining why there are NO half-dwarf races... Internal consistency! *shakes fist* damn you!!!
:)

[Te'Shen]

Cardinal Chunder wrote:

. . .

It irks me a tad when Pazio prints this and in another product (Bastards of Golarion I think) spend time explaining why there are NO half-dwarf races... Internal consistency! *shakes fist* damn you!!!
:)

Uhhmmm... it's magic?

Picture a human tribe that made in roads with a dwarven clan. Then after a war where both fought a common enemy, many took a blood oaths and Torag blessed these friendships, resulting in an inordinately high amount of humans who also counted as dwarf-kin (had the feat).

They are usually nicknamed Mules.

[lemeres]

James Risner wrote:

lemeres wrote:

The adopted trait gives you another race's language and weapon familiarities.

This adopted?

How is that getting you a racial trait? Instead of the race trait it says you get?

Or are you thinking of some other Adopted trait?

Darn it, I meant the Adoptive Parent alternate racial trait from ARG.

Sorry I don't remember the specifics. I don't go around having my character raised by entirely different races for mechanical benefits that much.

[James Risner]

lemeres wrote:

I meant the Adoptive Parent alternate racial trait from ARG.

That way is fine, you are trading a bonus feat for a feat. All safe and happy like.

[Diekssus]

Cardinal Chunder wrote:

From APG:

It irks me a tad when Pazio prints this and in another product (Bastards of Golarion I think) spend time explaining why there are NO half-dwarf races... Internal consistency! *shakes fist* damn you!!!
:)

In that same book you can also read that there are always exceptions, magic goes a long way obviously. The 'normal' way for this to happen would be a oread (who can descend from dwarves) having a child with a human. he would have a sliver of dwarf blood.

[Gauss]

Cardinal Chunder wrote:

From APG:

Racial Heritage
The blood of a non-human ancestor flows in your veins.
Prerequisite: Human.
Benefit: Choose another humanoid race. You count as both human and that race for any effects related to race. For example, if you choose dwarf, you are considered both a human and a dwarf for the purpose of taking traits, feats, how spells and magic items affect you, and so on.

It irks me a tad when Pazio prints this and in another product (Bastards of Golarion I think) spend time explaining why there are NO half-dwarf races... Internal consistency! *shakes fist* damn you!!!
:)

Golarion is a setting. APG is a system. The two do not have to agree with each other. If Paizo chooses to not use one element of their system in their setting that is their choice although it is a bit of an odd one.