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Let's say I'm playing in an apocalyptic game.
Let's further say that I am a cave druid archetype and I can Wild Shape into an Ooze. Because why in the hell not?
This character is a 16th level hybrid.
He is 8th level Druid, but has Shaping Focus feat. He should be effective level 12 for wild shape which allows for medium sized oozes. Because, why the hell not?
And now the fun stuff. Here is a medium ooze: Carnivorous Crystal Ooze
Its main attack is a 7d6 slam.
Let us assume that I Enlarge as this ooze.
Let us then assume that I cast Strong Jaw on this ooze.
Because, why in the hell not.
Now let us assume that I use Vital Strike
And then, just because too much is NEVER enough, let us assume that I then have 1 level of Barbarian and use Furious Finish
I'm too stupid to do maths.
Someone please, somewhere, help a brother out.
Please, break down the damage per step. Thanks much!
Enlarge won't work, because of the [Polymorph] rules. So, 7d6, 14d6 with Strong Jaw, 42d6 with Greater Vital Strike, maximized with Furious Finish. Get an AoMF with that enchantment that removes fatigu when you kill an opponent, and go to town.
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Also, let us further assume that this ooze has 7 levels of Monk, which would grant a base damage of 1d8.
Further then, this monk has Monastic Legacyfeat.
That should make him an effective level 12 monk for base damage, which would be 2d6.
This oozing monk would further wear a Monk's Robe .
That should make him an effective lvl 17 monk for base damage of 2d8.
Assume also that said oozy monk is then using Feral Combat Training (slam)
Now then, the question begs...assuming the same spells in effect (enlarge, strong jaw) and then feat (vital strike)......
Which is the better series of attacks?
The natural attack of the Carnivorous Crystal Ooze at 7d6 base, strong jawed, enlarged, and then vital striking with Furious Finish to do max damage?
The natural attack of the Carnivorous Crystal Ooze at 7d6, strong jawed, enlarged, and then flurrying of blows? (hehe thats just silly to think about)
Or, foregoing the ooze in and of itself, and just going straight natural damage from the monk/druid aspect
Thank you!
Perhaps I'm a bit unsure why Enlarge doesn't seem to work with the Polymorph rules?
Because of this:
You can only be affected by one polymorph spell at a time. If a new polymorph spell is cast on you (or you activate a polymorph effect, such as wild shape), you can decide whether or not to allow it to affect you, taking the place of the old spell. In addition, other spells that change your size have no effect on you while you are under the effects of a polymorph spell.
Owner - D20 Hobbies
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1) I Enlarge as this ooze.
2) I cast Strong Jaw on this ooze.
3) I use Vital Strike
4) I then have 1 level of Barbarian and use Furious Finish
This is a whole "ask you GM" because there is no chart. This damage train doesn't have any tracks.
1) You can't enlarge, since you are under the effect of a polymorph effect.
2) Probably an "ask your GM" but it does have that word about "double the damage" and since there is no train then 14d8 seems reasonable.
3) Double damage (if 14d8 above then 28d8 now). This is the only one that isn't "ask your GM".
4) Calculate all dice as if you rolled an 8.
You left out 2 levels of Ranger for Improved Natural Attack Slam. Which would be:
5) Ask your GM if they stack with Strong Jaw. They both have the same "as if" instead of straight raising your size.
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Perhaps I'm unsure a bit on how we are arriving at 14d8....
So if the base form's attack is 7d8, and Strong Jaw acts as if the creature was 2 sizes bigger, how is that only a x2 in the increase from 7d8? Would it not progress 7x8 > 14d8 > 28d8? Or, assuming you do the traditional Paizo x2 x2 = x3 reasoning, 21d8?
So, base damage = 21d8, then vital strike for 42d8, or improved (all I can get atm) for 63d8?
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Owner - D20 Hobbies
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Perhaps I'm unsure a bit on how we are arriving at 14d8....
The chart isn't 7d8 -> 14d8 -> 24d8.
There is no chart for 7d8 in the first place. You are "off the chart" so to speak.
double the amount of damage dealt by each of its natural attacks instead.
That covers if you are already at Gargantuan or Colossal sized.
The general math here is that a size bump increases damage by between 30 % and 50 % each increase. Not double.
Starting with 2d6, 3d6, 2d8, or 3d8 every two steps doubles the number of dice.
2d6->->4d6->->8d6
3d6->->6d6->->12d6
2d8->->4d8->->8d8
3d8->->6d8->->12d8
So, increasing two steps from 7d8 should be 14d8.
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Starting with 2d6, 3d6, 2d8, or 3d8 every two steps doubles the number of dice.
2d6->->4d6->->8d6
3d6->->6d6->->12d6
2d8->->4d8->->8d8
3d8->->6d8->->12d8So, increasing two steps from 7d8 should be 14d8.
I'm not seeing that. I believe, you, and I'm going to go with 14d8 when I talk to my GM, but....
So in your first 4, the first jump is x2.....2 to 4, 3 to 6, 2 to 4, 3 to 6....
Which means that 7d6 x2 would be 14d6.
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So, my understanding on this would be that in this scenario, with a 7d8 and strong jaw on, my base damage is 14d8.
Vital Strike for 28d8.
Improved vital strike for 42d8.
Greater vital strike for 56d8.
Plus static damage. This character does not have Greater Vital Strike yet.
Improved only. That means with Furious Finish, if he hits with the IVS and then max damage 42x8 = 336 damage + static.
Not too shabby.
Bomanz, the source of my information is the feat "Improved Natural Attack" on Bestiary p315. That feat is usually considered the best table for advancement of damage dice.
James, I'm not sure what point you were trying to make.
Yes, it's original purpose is for "one size larger" effects (single step) but does that somehow negate that every two steps (as shown above) is double the dice?
Does it negate that (except in rare cases like 2d4) the Improved Natural Attack feat is the single best method for showing damage advancement since there is no other comparable table?
Ok. :)