| RokushoTheBlackCat |
Long story short, my group fell into an issue regarding attacks of opportunity.
The situation:
Two players are standing one square away from each other.
An enemy makes a move action. This move action moves them into the first square threatened by both players not provoking an attack of opportunity.
The enemy then proceeds to continue its movement through that threatened square and into another.
Before continuing its movement for the turn we run into the complication here.
One of the players brought up that it should result in an attack of opportunity from both players whose threatened squares it just moved through, and then cites the book example.
We have another player who has been playing Pathfinder, and D&D games for longer than I've been alive (I'm 23). He argues that it doesn't because the rules state that moving into a threatened square doesn't provoke an attack of opportunity even if they are leaving a square that is threatened. When we point out the example, he vehemently argues that the rules are contradicting themselves and that it would be idiotic to follow that.
We are currently attempting to clear this up so no more large arguments appear in the future in regards to this. If I could get some well renowned explanations, or quotes from the developers explaining this, it would be very much appreciated.
Alanya
|
From the Core Rulebook under attacks of opportunity:
"Provoking an Attack of Opportunity: Two kinds of actions can provoke attacks of opportunity: moving out of a threatened square and performing certain actions within a threatened square.
Moving: Moving out of a threatened square usually provokes attacks of opportunity from threatening opponents. There are two common methods of avoiding such an attack—the 5-foot step and the withdraw action."
Moving into the threatened square doesn't provoke, but moving out of one does. Thus the first threatened square is "free", but the next one will provoke because you have to move out of the first one to get to it. You can also attempt to acrobatics through to avoid the aoo.
| RokushoTheBlackCat |
Spoiler:From the Core Rulebook under attacks of opportunity:"Provoking an Attack of Opportunity: Two kinds of actions can provoke attacks of opportunity: moving out of a threatened square and performing certain actions within a threatened square.
Moving: Moving out of a threatened square usually provokes attacks of opportunity from threatening opponents. There are two common methods of avoiding such an attack—the 5-foot step and the withdraw action."
Moving into the threatened square doesn't provoke, but moving out of one does. Thus the first threatened square is "free", but the next one will provoke because you have to move out of the first one to get to it. You can also attempt to acrobatics through to avoid the aoo.
So this effectively means that moving into a threatened square is considerably "free" as it doesn't provoke an attack of opportunity, but moving from one threatened square to another counts as having left the previous threatened square and provokes an attack unless a 5 foot step, withdraw action, or acrobatics movement is taken?
Alanya
|
Yes, though of course by free I mean it still uses movement, just that you don't provoke. Also, if you leave a threatened square to go into a non-threatened square, that still provokes (unless it is a 5 foot step, withdraw, or acrobatics check)since that is still considered leaving a threatened square. (Just to make that clear in case there was any question.)
| RokushoTheBlackCat |
Spoiler:Yes, though of course by free I mean it still uses movement, just that you don't provoke. Also, if you leave a threatened square to go into a non-threatened square, that still provokes (unless it is a 5 foot step, withdraw, or acrobatics check)since that is still considered leaving a threatened square. (Just to make that clear in case there was any question.)
Could you please elaborate how reach interacts with this? Myself and my gm are grateful for your responses.
Alanya
|
Most people have "normal" reach, which means they threaten all 8 squares around them (one square out). People with reach weapons, or creatures/enlarged persons with reach threaten two squares out (10 ft reach. 3 squares out for 15 ft out, etc.) Any enemy passing through (i.e. out of a threatened square) provokes as normal with reach. Also, since you provoke when you leave the square, but before you enter the next one, the aoo takes place in the square you're leaving (this is important if you have a reach weapon you can only use at 10 ft, and not close up).
| Blakmane |
No need for clarification. You don't provoke for moving into squares: you provoke for moving OUT of them. Thus, the enemy provokes from both players for moving out of the first threatened square.
If a player had a reach weapon, he would threaten squares 10ft away but not 5 ft away. In your example, the enemy would be in a threatened square 1 square before he moved within 5ft, and would provoke on that first movement. He wouldn't provoke on the second movement, because a reach weapon doesn't provoke within 5ft.
If a player had 10ft reach (due to being large, for example), he threatens all squares within 10ft. In your example, the enemy would provoke from the first movement and theoretically also from the second movement (but remember that continued movement through threatened squares doesn't provoke additional AOOs, in your particular case, he would only provoke once).
*edit*
Also, sounds like you shouldn't be listening too closely to the 'advice' of that experienced player, heh.
| RokushoTheBlackCat |
Spoiler:No need for clarification. You don't provoke for moving into squares: you provoke for moving OUT of them. Thus, the enemy provokes from both players for moving out of the first threatened square.If a player had a reach weapon, he would threaten squares 10ft away but not 5 ft away. In your example, the enemy would be in a threatened square 1 square before he moved within 5ft, and would provoke on that first movement. He wouldn't provoke on the second movement, because a reach weapon doesn't provoke within 5ft.
If a player had 10ft reach (due to being large, for example), he threatens all squares within 10ft. In your example, the enemy would provoke from the first movement and theoretically also from the second movement (but remember that continued movement through threatened squares doesn't provoke additional AOOs, in your particular case, he would only provoke once).
*edit*
Also, sounds like you shouldn't be listening too closely to the 'advice' of that experienced player, heh.
His argument has been that the first part of the rules for provoking an attack is that you don't if you're moving into a threatened square. So with his argument, you could move from one threatened square to another without creating an attack of opportunity because the rule states that moving into a threatened square doesn't provoke an aoo.
But it's good to get some clarification from those who are willing to give it. Thank you for your post.
| RokushoTheBlackCat |
Spoiler:Most people have "normal" reach, which means they threaten all 8 squares around them (one square out). People with reach weapons, or creatures/enlarged persons with reach threaten two squares out (10 ft reach. 3 squares out for 15 ft out, etc.) Any enemy passing through (i.e. out of a threatened square) provokes as normal with reach. Also, since you provoke when you leave the square, but before you enter the next one, the aoo takes place in the square you're leaving (this is important if you have a reach weapon you can only use at 10 ft, and not close up).
Thank you very much for the clarification.
| Blackstorm |
Blakmane wrote:** spoiler omitted **His argument has been that the first part of the rules for provoking an attack is that you don't if you're moving into a threatened square. So with his argument, you could move from one threatened square to another without creating an attack of opportunity because the rule states that moving into a threatened square doesn't provoke an aoo.
And he's an experienced player? Amazing. Moving out of a threatened square provoke. In fact, he doesn't provoke for entering in another threatened square, he provoke by leaving the previous. The two things can be simultaneous, but he's leaving. So, he provokes not for entering, but for leaving. He's really confused about the rules.
Weirdo
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His argument has been that the first part of the rules for provoking an attack is that you don't if you're moving into a threatened square. So with his argument, you could move from one threatened square to another without creating an attack of opportunity because the rule states that moving into a threatened square doesn't provoke an aoo.
Moving into a threatened square doesn't itself provoke, but it does nothing to protect you from the AoO provoked by leaving a threatened square. They're separate issues and are determined separately, just like making a ranged touch attack with a spell provokes an AoO from the ranged attack even if the spell that causes the attacks was cast defensively and doesn't itself provoke.
Ranged Touch Spells in Combat: Some spells allow you to make a ranged touch attack as part of the casting of the spell. These attacks are made as part of the spell and do not require a separate action. Ranged touch attacks provoke an attack of opportunity, even if the spell that causes the attacks was cast defensively.
Note however that if you move out of multiple threatened spaces in a round, you only provoke once per opponent (this question came up at my table a little while back).
Moving out of more than one square threatened by the same opponent in the same round doesn't count as more than one opportunity for that opponent.