I started describing the final battle of our Second Darkness game in one of the healing threads, and it seems like people had some questions and assertions they might want to discuss. I figured it might be more polite to start a separate thread than to hijack that one.
As a basic synopsis, we’ve spent several sessions fighting a couple of 18th level casters who are guarded by what appear to be CR19 golems with True Seeing (possibly advanced advanced giant giant shield guardian iron golems based on their Gargarntuan size and +36 attack bonus). There were also at least four 13th level drow Clerics along with half a dozen “bodyguards” and 3-4 “archers” (maybe around 11th level Fighters?). There was also a 14th level drow Sorcerer who apparently used a readied action to hit us all with Waves of Exhaustion the moment we got the double doors to the temple open. It turns out that teleporting and summoning are both impossible in the temple. There’s also a layer of poisonous smoke 20 feet up which offers access to an extradimensional or extraplanar space of some sort which the boss monsters use to move around. Being exhausted has made it a little tough to keep up with them.
Anyhow, when I said in the other thread that we couldn’t beat DR15 I didn't mean none of us can do more than 15 damage, just that we can't beat DR15/adamantine. Our weapons are as such (kind of weak for our level mostly but the best we could find...)
Barbarian2/Summoner13: furious bardiche with some other enchantments (It beats all metallic DR if she's raging. Unfortunately she just regained the ability to rage this round and hasn't had a turn yet)
Eidolon 1: +2 furious amulet (B/S makes the eidolon rage...when she's not exhausted...)
Monk1/Summoner14: GMF +3 or +1 glove (enchants improvised weapons - just for fun really)
Eidolon 2: GMF+1 and elf bane amulet (usually holy amulet instead)
Barbarian 15: +2 elf bane greataxe
Mystic Theurge: staff +1 (not that he'd try to hit a golem anyhow)
We've been taking a tremendous beating, and even sometimes ridiculed damage spells like Polar Ray and Meteor Storm can make it tough to keep your hit point totals up. It might be worth noting that we only have access to Core+APG (minus Alchemist, which the DM banned), so energy resistance/protection is a little tougher than in some other games. After about 7 rounds of absolute carnage the DM is injecting some plot stuff (Deus ex Backstory?) which might ultimately save our bacon, but we've probably been through >600hp of healing already.
Last round my PC was the only PC conscious. My eidolon and I spent our turns using wands of CMW to get the Mystic Theurge and his faerie dragon familiar conscious so that they could help heal the party. The other eidolon also spent its turn pouring a potion of CMW down the MT's throat since the 13hp from my wand wasn't enough to get him up again. I know that folks say offense is almost always better than healing, but in cases like this I think it is better to have all the PCs conscious.
If the MT agrees to Heal my eidolon I'll put DR10/chaotic on him and get ready to Pounce. There hasn't been a lot of time for buffs so far though. Folks understandably dislike spending 6th level spells to heal somebody else's class feature though, so the MT might try to Heal the Superstitious Barbarian instead though he's already not exhausted and my eidolon can take one hit per round for him (with better DR and a Summoner healbot riding on it)
This wasn't really meant as a rant about the encounter we're having (which does seem a bit over the top) but as an example of in combat healing coming in handy. We've also had PCs down recently in a low level game with a different group and DM, and only the fact that somebody was able to cast CLW and get the 2nd level Barbarian up on his feet allowed us all to escape the dungeon alive. My PC is in that game is quite strong but couldn't carry a Barbarian and his gear at a speed fast enough to actually get away from the monsters.
Tonight we'll play in a 17th level game where 2 of 3 PCs along with an animal companion and a familiar are currently blind. We should be able to fix that, but we'll probably have to Teleport back to town for it, which costs a couple of 5th level spell slots. Granted, we probably could have bought scrolls of Remove Blindness before, but nobody thought of it. Clerics just know it by default, which seems convenient.
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Well real quick. As has been said many times (but needs said again) Heal is an exception. It's a healing spell that actually can keep pace with damage along with removing conditions and ability damage. In short, it's way way more awesome then any "cure" spell. Now, if you a party of 4 15 level characters (what are the other two party members?) an encounter with 2 level 18 casters who have the support 4 Level 13 clerics and a level 14 Sorcerer should be a TPK. And that's not even counting the archers. It should be mentioned that unless your MT is early entry, MT without early entry is while not the worst idea, is probably pretty close to it. I'm also really shocked no has an adamatine weapon as those are pretty much the standard of melee weapons. I haven't played Second Darkness or read the module so I can't comment on whether the GM is fudging the encounter, but if the GM isn't that is an incredibly harsh encounter. Multiple casters against 4 party members, most of which are only slightly lower and 2 that are a spell level up is pretty much TPK fodder.
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You have two multiclassed summoners, a Barbarian, and a MT which as Anzyr correctly said, non-early entry theurge is terrible. A MT is several caster levels behind unless they are early entry, and the extra spells do not make up for that lack. Your Summoners do not have full strength eidolons, and should be using disposable Summon Monsters instead of the eidolons in this situation to save action economy and to have a disposable HP Sink.
You gear is terrible, By level 15 it is entirely reasonable to have an adamantine or +4 weapon. Hell, you could have a non-magical adamantine weapon for a measly 3000 gold.
You are under-geared, not optimal in class selection, and fighting up CL encounters of casters. It's a TPK recipe.
In short, you are falling into the area that poor choices are mandating emergency healing. The fact that you are doing as well as you are is impressive.
No AP uses APL+9 encounters. The GM is fudging things, and at level 15 the barbarian should have a +5(by price) weapon, and with what he is doing the party should be dead.
Short version: Your game is an out of the norm for several reasons. It is not so much that you need healing, but the GM should bring the game back in line with what is normal for your level.
Games and tables differ, this should no more be touted as "proof" that "healing in combat is a must have", than tables that do 2 round rocket-tag combats should be used as "proof' that "in-combat healing is useless".
This sounds interesting but very tough. Not to mention kinda fun, thanks for sharing.
that "in-combat healing is useless".
Once again that is a very small minority.
I'm sorry for the slow response, but I was busy with Independence Day celebrations.
Anyhow, regarding the party’s apparent lack of optimization, the DM feels that we’re all overpowered, especially my PC, the Monk/Summoner. His Monk level boosts his saves a bit and allowed him to achieve a high AC at low levels along with the Bodyguard feat, which he uses to add +3 AC to his eidolon and other allies as needed. The eidolon also has In Harm’s Way, so if the M/S gets hit too hard the eidolon takes the damage instead. Then the M/S heals him. We generally haven't taken a lot of hits until these +36 attack golems showed up. Our low (120ish I think) HP totals can't hold up to much of that.
The Mystic Theurge certainly isn’t the best optimized choice, but it has been better than not having a Cleric, and the player seems to have had some fun with the Wizard spells. I suspect Witch might have been a better choice, but since 4d6 drop the lowest rolling with a “free” 18 gave the PC 18 Int and Wis it seemed like a unique opportunity for somebody to play MT. Our ability scores are really high, but I think our lack of access to magical gear has more than made up for it (though I got bracers of armor +8 because an enemy caster had them)
I don’t really see how “your DM should have killed you already if he had better tactics” would negate the usefulness of the healing any more than “your party shouldn’t have needed the healing if they had better tactics”. Bad choices on both sides of the table are part of many games, and healing capability can help to cover them.
@Imbicatus - You might have missed it, but we can’t summon anything in this room. Therefore just popping our Resolute T-Rex with my SLA won’t work. SLAs and Summon Monster spells have helped us with many past encounters though.
@DrDeth - I wouldn’t say that this is proof that in combat healing is a must have, but it is certainly an example of how in combat healing was useful in one particular game. It almost goes without saying that similar situations have come up earlier in the same campaign. I’ve also seen them in some other campaigns. I just figured I’d post about this fight since in addition to being an example of in combat healing it is kind of a ridiculous tale.
As to tough encounters being fun, I think they can be at least within reason. Too many tough encounters in a row so that you feel like death is around every corner can be disheartening though. Tough encounters where the DM under plays the monsters to let you win are also kind of frustrating. Killer DM's tactics aren't always solid, but his desire to kill PCs seems genuine enough. Early in the game he'd have NPCs stop to coup de grace a downed PC multiple times if needed despite drawing AoOs or getting full attacked by PC archers. If we somehow manage to survive this campaign I'm thinking of having some t-shirts made.
@Anzyr - I think having the capability of in combat healing is important even if using it isn’t your “Plan A” or maybe “Plan B”. When the DM gets some really lucky rolls or just clubs you over the head with a super tough encounter. Maybe our opinions aren’t as far apart as I’d think. Anyhow, I’m glad you feel that Heal is a useful spell. Getting Heal generally requires playing as a healing capable class for a long while though. A party with a Cleric should have a pretty good “healer” unless the Cleric player refuses to use those particular abilities. Other classes which get Heal might be decent healers by default or with very little investment.
I guess other folks can access Heal via scrolls and UMD. The 1,650gp price per scroll is certainly more affordable than Raise Dead though I doubt that most parties would really stock up on Heal scrolls unless they’ve got somebody who can craft them at half price. I suppose it might make sense at high enough levels though Last Breath seems more common (we used scrolls of it on our Inquisitor in Kingmaker at least once or twice)
@wraithstrike - The DM certainly was well within his rights to apply some advanced templates and such early on when we had 7 PCs. As time wore on he beefed the encounters up more and more to the point where it was really obvious though, stuff like throwing in 4 greatly invisible 6th level Sorcerers into the sea cave fight on Devil's Elbow (I'm pretty sure it shouldn't have had them). That might not seem like a big change, but I think we were around 7th level back then, and 24d6 Fireball damage is kind of rough at that point.
DMs will often say they beefed up the monsters since otherwise they'd be no challenge for the PCs. Players will often say that they tweaked the PCs so they can survive. I'd like to see the game a little more balanced so that both sides trying as hard as they can within the CR system would result in something fun and relatively balanced (with a clear bias towards the PCs of course)
@Anzyr - I think having the capability of in combat healing is important even if using it isn’t your “Plan A” or maybe “Plan B”. When the DM gets some really lucky rolls or just clubs you over the head with a super tough encounter. Maybe our opinions aren’t as far apart as I’d think. Anyhow, I’m glad you feel that Heal is a useful spell. Getting Heal generally requires playing as a healing capable class for a long while though. A party with a Cleric should have a pretty good “healer” unless the Cleric player refuses to use those particular abilities. Other classes which get Heal might be decent healers by default or with very little investment.
Going to repost my healing explanation from the other thread here quick to help clarify:
In combat healing; is the kind of healing that is considered sub-par because mathematically it is. Until you get Heal, damage received outpaces the healing you get from the cure line or channeling (especially if you have less healers then the number of enemies). Also, actions wasted on in combat healing could be better directed to battlefield control spells that work as sort of "preemptive" cures by preventing the enemies from dealing damage in the first place, or reducing the amount of damage they can deal.
Emergency healing; can at times be an unfortunate necessity. It's never an action you *want* to have to take, but when it needs done it needs done. Ideally, the enemy should dead/controlled enough that this scenario does not occur, but it's not a waste of action to emergency cure an unconscious member back to consciousness and thus back to action contribution town.
Down time healing; is what is the most mathematically optimal form of healing. It's extremely cheap and allows your entire party to be at full strength for their next encounter. Superior because it takes 0 in combat actions and is the smallest drain on resources.
No healing. You have made a mistake. A terrible mistake. I'd say you'll live to regret it, but odds are against you living at all.
As to the issue of the GM killing you already if he better tactics negating healing, in general it doesn't. If your GM can TPK you with an encounter he's set-up then healing isn't going to effect the narrative at all. The problem is some GMs fudge encounters to force players to use healing, instead of using tactics that would just kill them. All healing does here is drag out an losing a battle until your GM feels you've taken enough damage and then can play the enemies as idiots and let you win. But if the APL+9 fight was a serious fight with no fudging, you would be hundreds of thousands time better off with a mass SoL/SoD then a Heal, since even if only 3-4 of the casters in the encounter get caught in it, you will have prevented many many more HP damage then Heal can patch up.
I've actually responded regarding the healing in the other thread.
I might have put the bodyguards and archers into some Pits if I'd had the time, but there have always been more pressing needs. I also might have swept them all up with a big air elemental if we could summon. I think most of the HP damage has come from the golems anyhow though the Flamestrikes from the Clerics were harder on some PCs than others.
Not knowing how hard the DM is really trying is part of the frustration with an encounter like that. I like it when the DM uses more reasonable CR monsters but has them go all out.
Im confused by how those archers didn't somehow prevent most casting through readied actions.
a decent cavalier and a pistolero in the group and this encounter would already BE over… :)
@Scavion - The archers are NPC mooks on the enemy side. They need a nat 20 to hit my PC, and even then I'd reassign that hit to my eidolon using In Harm's Way. They certainly could have readied actions to shoot the Mystic Theurge though. I'm not even sure if he has Mirror Image up. I never said that Killer DM's tactics were great, just that he brings a lot of tough monsters, they hurt us, and we need healing. Anyhow, I think that two of the Heals were cast off scrolls by an invisible faerie dragon.
@Pendagast - Just a Pistolero with +5 guns would probably flatten the encounter in a round or two, but Killer DM limited us to Core+APG minus Alchemist and didn't allow us to buy whatever magic items we wanted.
In combat healing; is the kind of healing that is considered sub-par because mathematically it is. Until you get Heal, damage received outpaces the healing you get from the cure line or channeling (especially if you have less healers then the number of enemies). Also, actions wasted on in combat healing could be better directed to battlefield control spells that work as sort of "preemptive" cures by preventing the enemies from dealing damage in the first place, or reducing the amount of damage they can deal.
Emergency healing; can at times be an unfortunate necessity. It's never an action you *want* to have to take, but when it needs done it needs done. Ideally, the enemy should dead/controlled enough that this scenario does not occur, but it's not a waste of action to emergency cure an unconscious member back to consciousness and thus back to action contribution town.
The math part is highly disputed. As has been said many times before healing works almost every time, while damage is reduced by AC, miss chances, DR, ER, and so forth. True, Damage can be optimized but so can healing.
But yes, until healing is NEEDED buffing, etc is a better use of actions. I think healing is better just before your party member goes down, rather than after.
In combat healing; is the kind of healing that is considered sub-par because mathematically it is. Until you get Heal, damage received outpaces the healing you get from the cure line or channeling (especially if you have less healers then the number of enemies). Also, actions wasted on in combat healing could be better directed to battlefield control spells that work as sort of "preemptive" cures by preventing the enemies from dealing damage in the first place, or reducing the amount of damage they can deal.
Emergency healing; can at times be an unfortunate necessity. It's never an action you *want* to have to take, but when it needs done it needs done. Ideally, the enemy should dead/controlled enough that this scenario does not occur, but it's not a waste of action to emergency cure an unconscious member back to consciousness and thus back to action contribution town.
The math part is highly disputed. As has been said many times before healing works almost every time, while damage is reduced by AC, miss chances, DR, ER, and so forth. True, Damage can be optimized but so can healing.
But yes, until healing is NEEDED buffing, etc is a better use of actions. I think healing is better just before your party member goes down, rather than after.
If you are in a situation where AC, miss chance, DR, ER and so on are doing their job, then that's even less of a reason to heal. If they aren't doing their job, then we are in the situation where healing will not keep up with damage. See how that works?
If you are in a situation where AC, miss chance, DR, ER and so on are doing their job, then that's even less of a reason to heal. If they aren't doing their job, then we are in the situation where healing will not keep up with damage. See how that works?In combat healing; is the kind of healing that is considered sub-par because mathematically it is. Until you get Heal, damage received outpaces the healing you get from the cure line or channeling (especially if you have less healers then the number of enemies). Also, actions wasted on in combat healing could be better directed to battlefield control spells that work as sort of "preemptive" cures by preventing the enemies from dealing damage in the first place, or reducing the amount of damage they can deal.
Emergency healing; can at times be an unfortunate necessity. It's never an action you *want* to have to take, but when it needs done it needs done. Ideally, the enemy should dead/controlled enough that this scenario does not occur, but it's not a waste of action to emergency cure an unconscious member back to consciousness and thus back to action contribution town.
The math part is highly disputed. As has been said many times before healing works almost every time, while damage is reduced by AC, miss chances, DR, ER, and so forth. True, Damage can be optimized but so can healing.
But yes, until healing is NEEDED buffing, etc is a better use of actions. I think healing is better just before your party member goes down, rather than after.
Yep they do their job maybe 50% of the time. So when your bestest buddy gets hit and the next round- IF he gets hit- will drop him, do you take that 50% chance with his life or no?
If it would only drop him, no definitely not. If he does get hit and goes unconscious, next round I would use healing to get him back into the fight, since my action this turn could be better spent making the enemy unable to/less likely to hit, or just plain finishing it off. Now, if he was doing to die from a successful hit that's another story, since the resources required to return him from death are costly. Though that second scenario falls under "emergency healing" above. It's never an action you *want* to take, its just sometimes unfortunately required to prevent resource soak.
Regardless of why, our healing capabilities served us well, and we'll head into this week's session with all 4 PCs conscious for the first time in weeks. If all goes well (or poorly) the campaign should end this week. We've been playing the same encounter for probably 6-7 sessions over several months at this point, and at least one of the players is looking forward to "sweet, sweet death" if that's the only way to escape (PC death, that is, TPK style)
@Anzyr - A lot of times in various games I've found that I'll get ambushed and hit for some damage before I get a chance to fully deploy defenses like AC, Mirror Image, etc. Once they're up it can sometimes make sense to heal a little and reduce the risk of getting taking out by a nat 20. Regarding the buddy who might get dropped, it is often tough to tell if he'll be killed, especially when crits come into play. I'd generally prefer to see my ally save or defend himself if possible, but sometimes folks need outside help. I agree it should generally be Plan B though.
@DrDeth - I invest pretty heavily in defense and would say that monsters hit my "tank" PCs well under 50% of the time at least when they're not flat footed. On the other hand, many parties seem to have some squishy members who can't defend themselves as well, and even good defenses won't stop lucky attacks. Healing can help reset the odds when the dice have thrown them into the DM's favor. Given a "second chance" the numerically superior PC should be able to win - call it a rematch...
@KainPen - It is interesting that there was an encounter which would have included shield guardians though I think we avoided it. Killer DM did insist, "This stuff is right out of the book!", but I guess he didn't mention that it was from a different part of the book or even a different book in the AP. I wonder if there was an Immolation Devil with 4 Kalavakus demons somewhere else in the module. Either way, we fought them in the room before the temple. We did get a chance to buy gear in Kyonin, but I think the single item limit was 18k. It was probably only our second or third chance to buy magic items. Some of us had crafting feats, but it was usually tough finding the time to craft too.
We did get a chance to buy gear in Kyonin, but I think the single item limit was 18k. It was probably only our second or third chance to buy magic items. Some of us had crafting feats, but it was usually tough finding the time to craft too.
off topic: Not every feat/class/etc is going to be good for every campaign, but I think the a GM should inform you when taking the crafting feats that you won't have the time to use them. I ran games where the PC's were almost always against a clock so I warned them about the feats most likely not being worth taking in those games.
I'm aware this shouldn't represent what "normal" play is like, but the fact is that we've actually played this game and I've been in others which were kind of similar. In the world of oppressively high CR battles I think there will always be some long battles where healing unfortunately has to shine. Anyhow, for those who might be interested (probably our players and ex-players at least), we had another session last night although we still weren’t able to finish the fight:
A new development (deus ex backstory) is that the 18th level Wizard who is the MT’s mother apparently made a saving throw and broke the spell enslaving her rather than killing her son. This sort of matches how Dominate Person might work, so maybe that’s what was going on. She spent her first few rounds on our side as a DM controlled NPC doing mediocre stuff like pouring a healing potion down her son’s throat (his faerie dragon had that covered...at keast until it died in an AoE spell) and casting the most amazing Fireball ever to help take out a few melee mooks who couldn’t reach us anyhow. As the DM mulled over what to have her do next my PC started scolding the Wizard for using all of her good spells against him and asking her what she had left. Luckily one of the spells she had left was Wall of Force. Not so luckily she had been reduced to 12 hit points and couldn’t move without drawing an AoO from a golem who would hit her on a 2 and averages 32 damage. She was able to use the WoF to isolate the party from the golems, but since it had to be 20 feet tall to block them it wasn’t long enough to block of their side of the room entirely. Still, it gave us a fairly safe place to cast for a round or two
We really needed that since the Barbarian (and everybody else) had taken even more damage from spells, mostly Unholy Blights I think, and was deep into negative hit points and well beyond dead. The MT used the protection of the WoF to cast Last Breath and spent a Hero Point on an extra standard action to cast Heal. The Summoners rejuvenated their eidolons, who themselves used wands of CMW on the Summoners. The MT remembered his domain spell and cast yet another Heal, this time on my exhausted and nearly dead eidolon, allowing me to start taking an active role in the fight again instead of just dragging unconscious PCs around for healing.
Meanwhile the Master Glyph had apparently begun healing Allevrah and her allies. At that point the party despaired and even our normally positive Barbarian player had a grim look on his face and stated his PC was headed for the exit. After a faux inspirational speech or two we decided we’d move into position for one last gasp Pounce attempt as the MT moved around the other end of WoF to try Greater Dispel on Allevrah. I used a surge to give my eidolon DR and flew out to a corner of the room while the B/S and Barb spread out to other charging lanes and the Wiz18 dropped Black Tentacles around the golems to slow them down so they couldn’t get into position to block all of us.
By spending his last Hero Point for a bonus on his dispel check, the MT was able to strip Allevrah of 3 spells. A recently cast Repulsion (which could have given the Barbarian and eidolons trouble), Greater Spell Immunity, and Heroes’ Feast. The latter caused some confusion since the module was 3.5 and the spell effects have changed a bit in Pathfinder. Suffice it to say that at the time we felt it was unfortunate he stripped that instead of Freedom of Movement. As it turned out it ended up being quite fortuitous though. My Pounce was kind of ill-fated. I only needed a 14 to hit with the +2 from charging, but the d20 decided that I was only able to come up with 1 hit in 6 attacks. The Barbarian’s Pounce went a little better, and between us we’d done around 69 damage to Allevrah after it got halved between her and the shield guardian. We’d both taken around 40 in return from AoOs but figured at least one of us would survive a round to make another full attack. Then the Barbarian/Summoner moved in around the back for flank and scored a nice hit with her bardiche. Even better, her eidolon managed to hit AC42 with his Bite. Since Allevrah had lost her Heroes’ Feast he was no longer immune to Poison, and Killer DM rolled a nat 1 on the save (he rolls out in the open, so there was no “fudging”). The player rolled 1d4 for Con damage and got a 4. Con damage can’t be shared with a shield guardian, and suddenly Allevrah was down for the count.
We’re now in position to be bombarded by Clerics, perforated by archers (who aren’t really that dangerous except to the MT, who just took 43 damage from them), and absolutely flattened by golems, but due to our recent healing splurge I don’t think they can do enough damage to kill us all in one round. Depending on how things go we might have chances ranging from slim to pretty good now whereas a few rounds ago it seemed absolutely hopeless. We never would have made it this far without tons of healing. I think the Barbarian has taken somewhere in the range of 700-800 damage this fight. I know that my eidolon has probably taken close to 200 damage, and he only has 122hp to start.
As far as classes not being good in a particular game, Summoner worked pretty well throughout most of the campaign, but having the final fight in a room where half the party is made up of Summoners who can’t summon has really put a damper on things.
@wraithstrike - Killer DM gave us absolutely no starting wealth or equipment other than clothing. We had to fight our way through 1st level using unarmed strikes and improvised weapons. Even after we reached civilization that there were very few chances to buy magic items. Some of us had unusual magic item needs (like a holy amulet for my eidolon), so crafting was almost a requirement if we wanted to get equipment relevant to our PCs. Crafted wands of Delay Poison saved many PCs from death via drow sleep poison plus CdG (after a few PCs had succumbed to it at low levels)
I ran Second Darkness, and the end encounter is close enough to what you described. Everything but the golems at least. My group led off strong and kept their edge through a tough fight. If it had started poorly it could have gone very badly.
There is certainly plenty of room for DM flex on final fights, especially with an older AP and dealing with *two* summoners in a group.
Best of luck! Sounds like you're getting your money's worth!
@Majuba - Honestly it has been the two approximately CR19 shield guardian golems with True Seeing which have made the fight so brutal though the Nalfeshnee trying to Feeblemind my PC every other round has certainly added to the suspense too. The Clerics have been hurting us pretty bad too, but I'd guess we probably would have won the fight already if he golems weren't there. If we somehow manage to pull through I'm thinking of having some t-shirts made to commemorate the end of what has certainly been one of the more dispiriting campaigns in recent history and reward those brave few who stuck it out.
@KainPen - We never got any XP in this campaign. The DM just told us to level up when he felt it was appropriate. While I don't care for that system I'd say it is reasonably common among DMs who don't feel like tracking XP. If the Imp was the only Devil in the AP then I guess the Immolation Devil we fought in the room before the final fight wasn't really supposed to be there either. That's not a big surprise.
Your suggestion on not multiclassing and various other suggestions on how we could have been more powerful kind of amuse me since the DM has complained that some of us are overpowered and the message boards often pan APs as not challenging enough. It is like getting mixed signals. On the other hand, your suggestion to bring more healing is interesting since one of the primary ideas behind this thread is that sometimes you really need healing and possibly lots of it. Of course there's also just the desire to chronicle our epic and slightly frustrating experience.
I personally like modifying and painting miniatures almost as well as I like playing, so I doubt I'll ever become a big VTT fan. Honestly I think few of our delays are ones VTT would solve anyhow unless it incorporates virtual dice rolling (which our players would hate) and maybe an AI to help people make decisions.
I figured that I'd post back again to say that after another session we've successfully completed the battle and the AP. We really got behind early in that final fight, and healing was very handy indeed. The Heal spell in particular was critical, but Rejuvenate Eidolon was a pretty big deal too, and even wands of CMW and CSW played a role. This session the Barbarian 2 / Summoner 13 was down to 6 hit points after taking 161 damage in one round and withdrew from melee. We knew that a barrage of arrows might be coming, but getting back 20ish points from Cure wands was enough to keep her alive. The Mystic Theurge had recently succumbed to Feeblemind, so wands were pretty much all the healing we had left for PCs. As far as healing eidolons went, I found it very useful to be able to redirect damage into my eidolon with In Harm's Way, reduce it with DR10/chaotic, and then heal what was left with Rejuvenate Eidolon and even the Lesser version.
On the flip side, after being resuscitated by the Glyph, Allevrah used Heal on herself to little avail as my eidolon and the Barbarian tore through her new hit points pretty quickly. We'd finally managed to drop most of the mooks with AoE spells, and though we were taking an absolute pounding from the golems Allevrah couldn't hold up when she was flanked by 3 PCs and 2 eidolons. Healing won't stop a flood of damage from washing you away, but if you get caught unprepared and need to reset then healing can definitely help you get back to a steady state. I'd assume that most groups do this between combat all the time. Sometimes you don't have the luxury of leaving combat to go heal though.
After several grueling years even Killer DM was happy to reach the end of his brutal campaign. He apparently looks forward to melting into the background as a PC. Oddly enough he'll be playing "the healer" though none of us really expect his Witch to do any in combat healing or much out of combat. My PC for this group's upcoming game has the Accelerated Drinker trait and hopes to find a steady supply of potions. If we're lucky we'll find some wands too.