| 2 people marked this as FAQ candidate. |
Okay, so supernatural abilities (Su) do not function like spells in most regards.
As such, when a creature with a supernatural ability targets another creature with that (Su) ability that requires a Will save (like most of the witch's hexes...), if the target makes their save, do they become aware of the hostile force, as they would be with a spell?
I know the target gets this knowledge on a successful save versus spells, and it can be inferred that spell-like abilities would also grant this knowledge, being so similar to spells, but this is not addressed anywhere in the rules or FAQ that I can find.
This is important, as if I'm playing a witch that is say, hiding or invisible, and I target an otherwise unaware creature with a Will save hex, if the creature makes their save and becomes alerted to a hostile presence then I probably would have picked a different tactic.
As written, I believe that the target is *not* alerted to the attempted effect, since it is a supernatural ability.
Thoughts?
Inversely, I'd be okay with the ruling that you are not aware when a supernatural ability is saved against by a target, as it is not a spell.
From the Magic section, under Saving Throws:
"Succeeding on a Saving Throw: A creature that successfully saves against a spell that has no obvious physical effects feels a hostile force or a tingle, but cannot deduce the exact nature of the attack. Likewise, if a creature's saving throw succeeds against a targeted spell, you sense that the spell has failed. You do not sense when creatures succeed on saves against effect and area spells."
From the Magic section, under Special Abilities:
"Supernatural Abilities: These can't be disrupted in combat and generally don't provoke attacks of opportunity. They aren't subject to spell resistance, counterspells, or dispel magic, and don't function in antimagic areas."
From the CRB Glossary, under Special Abilities:
"Supernatural Abilities (Su): Supernatural abilities are magical but not spell-like. Supernatural abilities are not subject to spell resistance and do not function in areas where magic is suppressed or negated (such as an antimagic field). A supernatural ability's effect cannot be dispelled and is not subject to counterspells. See Table: Special Ability Types for a summary of the types of special abilities."
For many purposes they act like spells with regards to targeting and so on, but they activation is different. I always say they victim notices, even though it is not in the book, but it should have been written better. Just like how bonuses are in the magic section, but they apply even when they are not magical. I think the bonuses should have been in the combat chapter or in the front of the book.
Bump.
I would handle it the same way as is done for spells and spell like abilities. If you target a creature (not an AoE, but select one or more indviduals) and they make the save they are aware that there was a hostile force directed at them.
It's not made clear, but to me it's the only sensible way to run it.
Claxon, so you would also rule that someone using a targeted hex would be aware of whether the target failed or succeeded on their save, as with a spell?
If supernatural abilities are *intended* to work as spells in this regard, I'm fine with that. BUT, I am not okay with GMs cherry-picking to favor monsters/NPCs over players.
I recently had a GM rule that the target was a ware of a hostile force after making a saving throw, but in the same session that my witch was unaware of whether another target succeeded or failed their save. I argued for consistency.
As written, I would lean with the supernatural exemption on both fronts, but would be happy to have it consistently work like a spell on both fronts. I need consistency in my game rules so I know what to expect.
(...)
So yes, +1 vote for consistency. It's probably easier to keep it as 'unnoticed' as part of the Su exemption than to create an entire new subset of rules for detecting Su abilities.
I go with consistency but the other way around: if a PC (or an NPC or Monster) make the save, you feel "something's wrong" and I call for Perception and Knowledge Rolls (or I roll for the affected opponents).
Similar to hearing an arrow being shot but not spotting it (or it's source) automatically.
You don't need a subset of rules for detecting Su abilities. Just saying that detection works exactly the same as it does for spells in regard to notice if you've been targetted or if the target of your spell succeeded in its save. It's a paragraph tops.
As far as consistency, yes that's important. For me, detecting that you've been the target of a supernatural ability, or that your use of a Su ability has failed works the same as a spell.
Yes. you know nothing if not your own mind. Something tries to screw with that, you know.