Socially proficient Rogue? Advice


Advice


Hey guys! I am trying to build a rogue-ish type.

I am looking for a rogue that is socially adept and charming like a bard with out the buffs.

I also don't need the trap finding or all that much emphasis on sneak attacking.

I will be stealing things.

I would like if it's possible to have him proficient in daggers (handheld and thrown) as well as a bit of hand to hand combat.

Is this a possibility from the start or would I have to level dip. I am not asking you to build anything for me just maybe a point in the right direction.

Thank you for the help


Look at the Ninja alternate class. It's more stealth/sneaking oriented and has Ki abilities. You lose trapfinding and gain poison use.

Liberty's Edge

Well, an Archaeologist Bard does pretty much everything you list, plus being good at traps as well. A Conversion Inquisition Inquisitor also does all the stuff you list pretty well. Both are very solid characters in their own ways, too, and potentially a lot of fun.

If willing to use the ACG classes, the Investigator and Slayer can also pull this off pretty well (though you need to invest a Trait into making Diplomacy a Class Skill if going Slayer, and Investigator is the least good of these options given it's lack of Charisma focus) and might fit your thematics a bit better than the above.

If you must go with a Rogue class or something like it, Ninja's a good choice for a socially focused Rogue, they get other benefits from Charisma after all, and thus are pretty effective. If going straight Rogue the Rake Archetype is clearly the way to go, but I'd go with one of the above classes instead if it were me.


Most of what you're after - stealth and charming - can be done with feats, skill points and maybe traits to get extra class skills, without using any class abilities. This leaves stabbing people with daggers.

You probably want two daggers if you're not going to be using spells, and if your general feats are used on things like Skill Focus (Stealth), Dampen Presence, and Eldritch Heritage (Shadow) + Improved EH this points in the direction of the Ranger class to supply the TWF feats. A Trapper archetype Ranger gets no spells and can disarm magic traps which may be useful to help steal things.


Got an odd one for ya... Cleric!!!

Human vanilla cleric of ???

Take conversion OR heresy inquisition for domain #1 and travel/trade domain. The benefits for mouths are great. Trade charisma in for wisdom bonuses to bluff, diplomacy, and one of intimidate or stealth depending on which inquisition taken (both are very legit). BTW, sense motive and perception key off of wisdom too :) Trade domain gains you a +10 speed, a +1-10 bonus as a free action to your mouth skills like bluff and diplomacy with a teleport cap at 8th level (PERFECT!!)

Now trade in extra feat for focused study and pick whatever 3 skill focused skills you want. Trade in skilled for silver tongue and +2 to bluff and diplomacy with a 3 step in attitude. Your feat at level 1 should be extra traits. With your 4 traits grab a +1 bluff (class skill), +1 sleight hand (class skill), wisdom in the flesh (sleigh of hand), and one more of whatever you like.

On mouth skills at level 1 my math...

Wisdom+3 (class skill)+1 skill rank+2 (silver tongue)+1 (trade domain)..
So 7+Wisdom and maybe trait or focused study bonus. That's double digit potential at level 1.

If that interested you at all ill post a build I used.


That's awesome actually. Cleric doesn't fit my character thematically at all but that is really interesting. Would it be a lot of trouble for you to post the build?

Mouth skills are definitely a want. A silver tongued thief would be great for me but this is worth considering.

Thank you everyone so far. You guys are full of great stuff.

Liberty's Edge

Clerics really lack enough skills to do this well, IMO. They can get the skill list readily enough, but 'smooth talking thief' requires an absolute minimum of 5 skill points per level or so, with more being better, and Clerics can't manage that very well.

You can do the same thing as an Inquisitor with a lot less effort and actually have the skill ranks to be good at it to boot.


12,14,12,14,16(18),7 for a 20 point buy with favored class to skills.

Grants you 5 skill points a level so your good for maxed social skills and can alternate on some others you want to have. Your tactics are bad touch in nature since your wisdom is so high. As such grab every good save or suck spell you can and use it relentlessly until they cry for mommy. At early levels grab a good ranged weapon and buff the frontliner as needed. Later levels metamagic is your friend.

Someone wiser than I will need to help you on the bad touch min maxing.

Traits: 4 of the following...+bluff skill, +disable device skill, magical lineage, wisdom in the flesh, reactionary, or PFS trait that gives proficiency in bow.

Feats.

1H focused study diplomacy
1 extra traits
3 improved initiative
5 bouncing spell or reaching spell

As a full caster your never u welcome even though battle is not your game. But you will be able to take shortcuts that others might have been able to do otherwise with you silver tongue. With a good GM and players you may not have to fight some fights at all and that is better than being great in battle.

Sry I don't have more but daggers for a cleric is a hard weapon to use. I couldn't find something for that. What I normally go for is guided hand with conductive for this but daggers won't work as a deity favored.

Liberty's Edge

Yeah...an Inquisitor can manage it and also have good Dex and a Charisma of higher than 7 if they want it (it particularly sucks on a Cleric). And 5 was a minimum, you ideally want more.

I'm not saying you can't do this with a Cleric, I'm saying Inquisitor is actually built to do this and does it better.


ShawnRF wrote:

Hey guys! I am trying to build a rogue-ish type.

I am looking for a rogue that is socially adept and charming like a bard with out the buffs.

I also don't need the trap finding or all that much emphasis on sneak attacking.

I will be stealing things.

I would like if it's possible to have him proficient in daggers (handheld and thrown) as well as a bit of hand to hand combat.

Is this a possibility from the start or would I have to level dip. I am not asking you to build anything for me just maybe a point in the right direction.

Thank you for the help

I don't know if the Charlatan rogue archetype is "good" by any standards of optimization, but's been loads of fun roll a Bluff check against an entire city.

Alternatively, you can eschew the archetype and get the "Rumormonger" Advanced Talent when you level later on, but the Charlatan gets it earlier.


Deadmanwalking wrote:

Yeah...an Inquisitor can manage it and also have good Dex and a Charisma of higher than 7 if they want it (it particularly sucks on a Cleric). And 5 was a minimum, you ideally want more.

I'm not saying you can't do this with a Cleric, I'm saying Inquisitor is actually built to do this and does it better.

I have to agree that inquisitor is the go to guy for this. If I had a deity with dagger as favored weapon or a different weapon the OP wanted then I'd be arguing for cleric because of full caster and guided hand SAD build. But I don't :(

@OP: On a different note... Have you looked at racial heritage and natural charmer combo? Take 20 on most mouth skills can potentially be as good as any skill boost. Just examine the restrictions closely. Still it has great potential. With a little patience yu can still apply focused study and silver tongue to have the whole thing working by level 3. I think archeologist works best for that route.

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