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Hi,
I had a question about when the "extra" attacks granted by Haste and/or using a Ki Point take place?
The rules state that attacks from BAB must be used highest to lowest.
If you get multiple attacks because your base attack bonus is high enough, you must make the attacks in order from highest bonus to lowest.
There is a FAQ that states you can combine the extra attack from Haste with the extra attack from Ki Pool.
Monk: Does the extra attack from spending ki as part of a flurry of blows stack with the extra attack from haste?
Yes. The extra attack described in the ki pool ability doesn't say it works like haste, nor does it say that it doesn't stack with haste, so the monk would get two additional attacks (one from spending a ki point as part of a flurry, one from haste).
But I can't find anything that spells out when those extra attacks must be taken? End of the round? Start of the round? Player's choice?
This would be a vitally important distinction when considering if I should take Hammer the Gap with my Zen Archer at 11th level.
Considering my attacks from BAB would be made +9/+9/+4/+4/-1. If I could take the Haste & Ki attacks first, I would have 4 attacks in a row at +9. The first attack is a Perfect Strike (roll 3d20), so it never misses. The remaining attacks made at my highest bonus (+9 before mods) rarely miss.
So if I'm reading Hammer the Gap right, the damage for those arrows (just considering hammer the gap) would be;
1. 1d8
2. 1d8 +1
3. 1d8 +2
4. 1d8 +3
I won't worry about the extra attacks, but right there that's +6 damage. Now, Hammer the Gap goes on to say that this damage is multiplied on a critical hit.
If my first arrow (the Perfect Strike one) is a critical hit, would this +6 damage be multiplied? Thus granting +18 damage?
Benefit: When you take a full-attack action, each consecutive hit against the same opponent deals extra damage equal to the number of previous consecutive hits you have made against that opponent this turn. This damage is multiplied on a critical hit.
Ki point can be an exception to the descending order. You do not have to declare that you are spending the Ki point when you start the Flurry. You could realize that your enemy is still standing at the end of your normal Flurry and then spend the Ki point for the extra attack.
You do damage as the hit is done. Your first attack does not gain the benefit of any later hits. So:
Hit 1 is 1d8
Hit 2 is 1d8+1
Hit 3 is 1d8+2
and so on
If your first hit is a crit it does 3d8.
If your fourth hit is a crit it does 3d8+9.
Owner - D20 Hobbies
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Ki point can be an exception to the descending order. You do not have to declare that you are spending the Ki point when you start the Flurry.
You can't take attacks out of BAB order, so either you need to spend the Ki before you take an attack with a lower BAB ***or*** the GM needs to try to solve the issue:
- such as making the bonus Ki attack at the lower BAB
- rejecting the Ki attack altogether
My PFS monk zen archer has experience both in high regularity, to the point that I just started never doing it except at the start of a full attack.
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If that's the case it makes the most sense to take your Haste attack, your Ki attack, followed by your Flurry attacks.
I don't see anything in the language of Perfect Strike that indicates it has to be taken with your first (or last) BAB attack, so in theory you could apply the Perfect Strike to your Haste attack, Ki attack, or any of your BAB attacks?
@Thorin - do you have a rules quote regarding the critical damage? I mean, that makes sense, but I couldn't find it anywhere.
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Owner - D20 Hobbies
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I don't see anything in the language of Perfect Strike that indicates it has to be taken with your first (or last) BAB attack, so in theory you could apply the Perfect Strike to your Haste attack, Ki attack, or any of your BAB attacks?
@Thorin - do you have a rules quote regarding the critical damage? I mean, that makes sense, but I couldn't find it anywhere.
Yes
Any static bonus to damage is multiplied on crits.
Ki point can be an exception to the descending order. You do not have to declare that you are spending the Ki point when you start the Flurry.You can't take attacks out of BAB order, so either you need to spend the Ki before you take an attack with a lower BAB ***or*** the GM needs to try to solve the issue:
- such as making the bonus Ki attack at the lower BAB
- rejecting the Ki attack altogether
My PFS monk zen archer has experience both in high regularity, to the point that I just started never doing it except at the start of a full attack.
The Ki attack is specifically an extra attack at your highest bonus. Nothing specifies when you have to take it, and you can spend a ki point at any time during your turn. Most monks I see wait until the end of the sequence to see if the bad guy drops first, and I have never seen a PFS GM in our area have a problem with it.
The "BAB order" refers only to your regular attacks. Extra attacks from ki pool or Haste don't say anything about needing to be in a specific order, and both abilities specify that the attack is taken at your highest bonus.
If you see it a lot in PFS, you might want to submit an FAQ or at least ask your venture officers for a clarification.
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Owner - D20 Hobbies
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The Ki attack is specifically an extra attack at your highest bonus. Nothing specifies when you have to take it
Nothing in the Monk, but nothing says this can violate the core rules "attacks must be taken from highest to lowest".
But since you don't agree, welcome to table variance. Because until there is a FAQ, errata, or rule saying which rule takes precedence you won't find an answer everyone will agree.