I want to know whether a medium sized Ape animal companion with light armor proficiency wears armor or barding.
Barding in the rules is defined as follows:
Barding is a type of armor that covers the head, neck, chest, body, and possibly legs of a horse or other mount.
An Ape being a bipedal creatue, would seem to not qualify as a mount. This idea is strengthened by rules on the Summoner’s Eidolon and the 1-Point Evolution called Mount (Ex):
An eidolon is properly skilled and formed to serve as a combat-trained mount. The eidolon must be at least one size category larger than its rider. This evolution is only available to eidolons of the quadruped and serpentine base forms.
This would seem to suggest that the Ape would wear armor instead of barding. What are people’s thoughts on this?
Isn't the only difference between the two their price?
I would say it is very reasonable that it is more expensive to make protection that fits an ape because it is so exotic.
Because of that I'd charge the exotic barding price, not the standard armor price.
I don't mind if it is more expensive and I suppose what you're saying is a RAI interpretation. According to the definition for barding, it seems it's for horses and mounts only. Do we have a RAW answer one way or another that tells us whether it's barding or armor?
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I think you're looking at this wrong. Whether its a mount or not a mount is irrelevant.
Take a look at the PRD.
Under the rules for Barding, there is no actual table. It says:
"Armor for a horse (a Large nonhumanoid creature) costs four times as much as human armor (a Medium humanoid creature) and also weighs twice as much (see Table: Armor for Unusual Creatures)."
If you then go down to the rules on Armor For Unusual Creatures, there is a table:
You'll note that the table DOES NOT have any listing for mounts or non-mounts. The table differentiates between Humanoids and Non-Humanoids. If you look at the examples from barding (namely that a large nonhumanoid creature like a horse costs 4 times as much and weighs twice as much), you'll see that this lines up with the Non-Humanoid column of the table.
Ergo, the real question is whether the creature is a humanoid or a non-humanoid, not whether it is a mount or not a mount. So, human, elf, giant, APE, pixie... use the Humanoid column. Horse, mule, boar, tiger, house cat... use the Non-Humanoid column.
Then there are the difficult cases, which column do you use for a Roc or axebeak? RAW I guess you'd use the Non-Humanoid column, but I'll leave this for another day.
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The ape is not a mount. Therefore it does not wear barding.
Really, the only difference between barding and regular armour, is that when the creature wearing the armour happens to be a mount, its armour is called barding.
Let me repeat myself. There is no barding or mount referred to by the Armor For Unusual Creatures table. The relevant issue in determining cost/weight is whether the creature is Humanoid or Non-Humanoid.
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What people are trying to say is that the only difference between armors and barding is the nomenclature, the game stats and prices are the same either way.
I don't mind if it is more expensive and I suppose what you're saying is a RAI interpretation. According to the definition for barding, it seems it's for horses and mounts only. Do we have a RAW answer one way or another that tells us whether it's barding or armor?
If this is not about the price, why is it important? Is there some corner case where it is important which it is?
Apart from that Captain Zoom gave the RAW answer.
I think the thing to realize, is that Apes are not of the Humanoid type, they are Animal type, so the cost is going to be based on a Medium Animal, which puts it at x2 the listed prices, and x1 the weight.
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I think the thing to realize, is that Apes are not of the Humanoid type, they are Animal type, so the cost is going to be based on a Medium Animal, which puts it at x2 the listed prices, and x1 the weight.
I think the particular rule is focusing on humanoid body-type, not racial type. Otherwise, you are saying an Aasimar's armor costs and weighs more even though he might have the same gross physical characteristics as a human.
Whoever wrote the rules probably should have used the terms Bipedal and Non-Bipedal, or something that didn't overlap term-wise with the race rules. For example, look at the mess caused by "Race Traits" and "Racial Traits".
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Let me repeat myself. There is no barding or mount referred to by the Armor For Unusual Creatures table. The relevant issue in determining cost/weight is whether the creature is Humanoid or Non-Humanoid.The ape is not a mount. Therefore it does not wear barding.
Really, the only difference between barding and regular armour, is that when the creature wearing the armour happens to be a mount, its armour is called barding.
I'm not sure why you directed that comment towards me. I agree with you.
I apologize, but it didn't sound like you were agreeing with me, but were reiterating the barding versus armor distinction. Upon carefully re-reading, you were in fact agreeing with me.
Sorry.
If this is not about the price, why is it important? Is there some corner case where it is important which it is?
Apart from that Captain Zoom gave the RAW answer.
The real reason I care can be found at this thread: Rhino Hide and Pounce
So, the bottom line is that if bipedal animal companions can wear armor, not barding, then perhaps they can wear rhino hide.
If this is not about the price, why is it important? Is there some corner case where it is important which it is?
Apart from that Captain Zoom gave the RAW answer.
The real reason I care can be found at this thread: Rhino Hide and Pounce
So, the bottom line is that if bipedal animal companions can wear armor, not barding, then perhaps they can wear rhino hide.
I do not see any reason that would prevent the construction of rhino hide barding. Because, as has been said, barding is just another word for armor for animals, mostly mounts. But in the end it is armor just the same.
Edit: As, basically, barding is the same as armor I think the claim that specific armors can not be made into barding is wrong in PF.Could be that it is right for PFS. But not PF.
