This thread is to see how much interest there might be in a PDF product that offered a Chaotic Good Paladin Variant class along with several archetypes, new feats for the variant class and the base paladin, along with a few magic items.
Total page count would be around 40-70 pages depending on interest and desire expressed.
This material is mostly completed, however before I started a Kickstarter I wanted to see how many people would find such a product evocative or interesting.
Feel free to respond here with requests or just a Yes/No. Please also feel free to PM me.
Just to be clear I have written most of this material already simply due to the fact that I find Paladin such a personally evocative class. I hope to share some of this enjoyment and excitement with other pathfinder fans.
I thank everyone who take the time to respond.
I am always interested in getting my hands on a new class but I have to ask what is your take on a CG paladin?
Why have you decided to use Kickstarter for this? To pay for art?
Will the product be print, PDF or both?
Are there particular rewards you are considering to make Kickstarter more relevant than just releasing the product? Further products down the line perhaps?
How does the level of interest intersect with the page count? More backers unlocking more content?
I'm always a fan of alignmentless options. More power to you.
I am always interested in getting my hands on a new class but I have to ask what is your take on a CG paladin?
My currently written version is a warrior who defends choice and see's the theft of anothers will or the enslavement of another as an unspeakable evil.
I see a "Paladin or variant" as a character empowered by the virtues of the alignment he or she espouses. In short they are so metaphysically in tune with the elemental forces of Law/Chaos Good/Evil as to gain abilities and powers from such.
Non-LG paladins don't really fit in my campaign, so I doubt I would want anything like this.
I thank you for your response, as it will help gauge the demand for this product.
I'd love it!
It is good to see some interest, my thanks.
Why have you decided to use Kickstarter for this? To pay for art?
I am not wed to kickstarter, however it seemed to be a good option for a multitude of reasons. Among them being Art, a professional editor, a professional layout artist specifically using InDesign which I do not possess, and a lawyer for writing the OGL page.
Will the product be print, PDF or both?
I was planning a PDF product with some pledge levels receiving progressively more ornate print versions.
Are there particular rewards you are considering to make Kickstarter more relevant than just releasing the product? Further products down the line perhaps?
I am using this as a starter product for a line so yes there will be more products. I am honestly looking at the recent Mythic kickstarter from Legendary Games as a model for rewards, however as I am not I believe, able to network as well, due to being newer to the pathfinder writing scene I expect both my rewards and results to be more humble.
I would be very willing to take any advice you have.
How does the level of interest intersect with the page count? More backers unlocking more content?
I'm always a fan of alignmentless options. More power to you.
Yes, exactly. As well, my thanks for the empowerment.
Depending on it's delivery (as in, presentation), I may or may not be interested. As it is, everything is far too vague for me to say either way. It might not be bad to point people to other (already published) works, so they can get an idea of what you (or your team) are capable of. It certainly doesn't hurt!
I appreciate your advice, however I am currently working alone and do not have any credits to my name at this time.
As for delivery, that is one reason for the kickstarter, so as to allow for a polished and beautiful product.
I am doing this as a labor of love and would like very much to produce for the pathfinder group of fans an outstanding product.
In short I am a writer that is deciding whether to kickstart this project myself or approach a publisher with it.
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My personal feeling is that Paladin should be open to more alignments than just LG; however, I'd be less interested in a specifically CG variant and more interested in one that deals in them as a champion of many alignments; that is, a more general variant that you can use to create LG/G/CG, and perhaps LE/E/CE paladins.
As an addition to this, I'd love to see some conversation on writing one's own Code or Codes, and in making them meaningful to the game without them being the fun-killer buttons they are now.
Thank you for the response Covent for the answer. I would definitely buy the product now that I know what I know, though i agree with Prince to a certain extent: I'll buy this class but I would love to invest in a PDF with various 'alignment paragons.'
I think a chaotic-good paladin would be more of a Vigilante that someone obsessed with a fight against slavery. they would have abilities to allow them to escape but not just for people to escape slavery but for himself to escape the "Law"(as he'd rather disable or escape from them than kill). although remember, chaotic good people are much more likely to kill for the greater good.
I can't think of a chaotic good exemplar wearing heavy armor much either. Chaotic evil exemplars I could however since they're rampant destruction and death incarnate.
so to me, your interpretation is too specific and doesn't interest me as much. however, i would be interested in possibly other alignment exemplars.
Count me as one of the people who thinks a "Paladin of Freedom" would be awesome. There's already a PF-friendly conversion of the CG paladin from Unearthed Arcana on d20pfsrd, but seeing a dedicated product with artwork and such would be great!
Also, if it works out, maybe there can be a variant LE antipaladin.
I am interested in both CG and LE versions of Paladins. As I see it, the traditional Paladin and Anti-Paladin are forces of Good vs Evil, whereas a LE and CG Paladins would be forces of Order vs Chaos - insofar that LE Paladins believe that chaos (and perhaps even free will) is the cause of poverty and crime; while CG Paladins believe that order (as forms of law systems) create law which prevents true justice from being executed, eg the helpless are the footstones of the powerful.
I definitely DON'T think that either CG or LE Paladins should be opposite clones of the standard Paladin in the way that the Anti-Paladin is.
Paladin = Force of good who believes law creates harmonious society.
Anti-Paladin = Force of evil who believes chaos is a means for their own power.
CG Paladin = Force of chaos who believes good is the ultimate arbiter of right/wrong.
LE Paladin = Force of law who believes evil is a means to achieve utopia - ala the road to hell is paved with good intentions.
I would also like to see piecemeal Codes of Conducts - ie a Paladin can pick a broader Code which he follows (he might find that 'respecting legitimate authority' for instance clashes with his ideal of 'protect the innocent' so simply excludes the former from his code)
a LE paladin I think should always keep his promises and will force others to do the same for him. They believe more in the entrenched ideals and laws of old. He will oppress people and kill rebels if they're pushing against the Elites of society who they believe maintain the barrier between where we stand and utter chaos. To help the weak is to waste resources and possibly feed your enemy.
another take could be, that they are about a strict code of laws and order, and will uphold this code above other peoples lives. these codes of conduct revolve around tradition and habit. your power comes from a clarity of the world, and people who are simply wrong must be oppressed or otherwise made to fit in for the more perfect world.
I think you should work in codes of conduct to the current paladins that makes them more opposed to CG and LE. all of these guys should hate each other in equal amounts i say.
*if you haven't noticed i'm really interested in LE
I think a chaotic-good paladin would be more of a Vigilante that someone obsessed with a fight against slavery.
This is a specific personal opinion.
they would have abilities to allow them to escape but not just for people to escape slavery but for himself to escape the "Law"(as he'd rather disable or escape from them than kill).
Again, specific personal opinion.
although remember, chaotic good people are much more likely to kill for the greater good.
More likely than who?
I can't think of a chaotic good exemplar wearing heavy armor much either. Chaotic evil exemplars I could however since they're rampant destruction and death incarnate.
I see no reason for alignment to impact armor choice.
so to me, your interpretation is too specific and doesn't interest me as much. however, i would be interested in possibly other alignment exemplars.
I felt Covent's interpretation open enough to see a bunch of character concepts available.
My personal feeling is that Paladin should be open to more alignments than just LG; however, I'd be less interested in a specifically CG variant and more interested in one that deals in them as a champion of many alignments; that is, a more general variant that you can use to create LG/G/CG, and perhaps LE/E/CE paladins.
As an addition to this, I'd love to see some conversation on writing one's own Code or Codes, and in making them meaningful to the game without them being the fun-killer buttons they are now.
I would agree with the idea of "Paladin-esque" classes being available to all or at least most alignments, is in my opinion desirable.
I would also be interested in writing a Meta-article about designing alignment based/powered classes. This is mostly due to the fact that I have in development a Setting using classes based on alignment as empowerment for all alignment variations. If your are interested in seeing my early notes feel free to PM me, but please be aware that this is early days yet for that project.
However I am for the CG paladin variation currently planning on including it with a PDF about a race for which this CG Variation is the Iconic class, and from where the class originated.
Thank you for the response Covent for the answer. I would definitely buy the product now that I know what I know, though i agree with Prince to a certain extent: I'll buy this class but I would love to invest in a PDF with various 'alignment paragons.'
I do plan on releasing more alignment variations when I release more race books/PDFs and other crunch supplements to slowly build interest in this particular setting.
I think a chaotic-good paladin would be more of a Vigilante that someone obsessed with a fight against slavery. they would have abilities to allow them to escape but not just for people to escape slavery but for himself to escape the "Law"(as he'd rather disable or escape from them than kill). although remember, chaotic good people are much more likely to kill for the greater good.
I can't think of a chaotic good exemplar wearing heavy armor much either. Chaotic evil exemplars I could however since they're rampant destruction and death incarnate.
so to me, your interpretation is too specific and doesn't interest me as much. however, i would be interested in possibly other alignment exemplars.
I appreciate your feedback.
Count me as one of the people who thinks a "Paladin of Freedom" would be awesome. There's already a PF-friendly conversion of the CG paladin from Unearthed Arcana on d20pfsrd, but seeing a dedicated product with artwork and such would be great!
Also, if it works out, maybe there can be a variant LE antipaladin.
I already have written and plan on releasing a LE Paladin variant, it would just be included with a different product.
I am interested in both CG and LE versions of Paladins. As I see it, the traditional Paladin and Anti-Paladin are forces of Good vs Evil, whereas a LE and CG Paladins would be forces of Order vs Chaos - insofar that LE Paladins believe that chaos (and perhaps even free will) is the cause of poverty and crime; while CG Paladins believe that order (as forms of law systems) create law which prevents true justice from being executed, eg the helpless are the footstones of the powerful.
I definitely DON'T think that either CG or LE Paladins should be opposite clones of the standard Paladin in the way that the Anti-Paladin is.
Paladin = Force of good who believes law creates harmonious society.
Anti-Paladin = Force of evil who believes chaos is a means for their own power.
CG Paladin = Force of chaos who believes good is the ultimate arbiter of right/wrong.
LE Paladin = Force of law who believes evil is a means to achieve utopia - ala the road to hell is paved with good intentions.
I would also like to see piecemeal Codes of Conducts - ie a Paladin can pick a broader Code which he follows (he might find that 'respecting legitimate authority' for instance clashes with his ideal of 'protect the innocent' so simply excludes the former from his code)
I do agree that the Paladin variants should not simply be clones and I have tried to give them both a different feel and crunch, however they do share some abilities, such as detecting opposing alignments with the base paladin class.
I was when the gods book came out planning on writing a section on Code modification, I even have it rough drafted, however it was a few products on.
a LE paladin I think should always keep his promises and will force others to do the same for him. They believe more in the entrenched ideals and laws of old. He will oppress people and kill rebels if they're pushing against the Elites of society who they believe maintain the barrier between where we stand and utter chaos. To help the weak is to waste resources and possibly feed your enemy.
another take could be, that they are about a strict code of laws and order, and will uphold this code above other peoples lives. these codes of conduct revolve around tradition and habit. your power comes from a clarity of the world, and people who are simply wrong must be oppressed or otherwise made to fit in for the more perfect world.
I think you should work in codes of conduct to the current paladins that makes them more opposed to CG and LE. all of these guys should hate each other in equal amounts i say.
*if you haven't noticed i'm really interested in LE
It is interesting to see how much demand there is for the LE paladin variant. Perhaps I should move it up my schedule.
*snip*
My thanks for your interest and support. :-)
Hmm. If (as somewhat mentioned above) you were looking for Champions of Law or Chaos, wouldn't the logical choice be for them to be Lawful Neutral and Chaotic Neutral, respectively? Pure Law and Chaos 'untainted' by morality.
Now that I think about it, there was already a whole series on Kobold Press's blog about alternate-aligned Paladins, with full write-ups for the class and whatnot.
I did plan on Law and Chaos champions as I see Lawful Good as very Different from Lawful Neutral, and Chaotic Good as very different from Chaotic Neutral.
There is a series on Kobold Press's Blog about such but the classes I have written/planned are much more elaborate as the series in question is more a short series of archetypes, while I enjoy a more separate class feel for the alignment champions.
For example Here is their CG variant and it is currently at 990 words vs the slightly under 9,000 words my CG variant is at, of which just over 6,500 word are new content.
I am in no way attacking Kobold press or Mr. Royall as I respect both immensely, it is simply that I am interested in releasing a slightly different product from what is freely available on their Blog.
Btw I heavily recommend Kobold press as they are in my top three 3rd party publishers, only trailing dreamscarred press due to my love of psionics.