Hello everyone,
I am planning on building a dwarven character on a quest to avenge the demise of his father when attempting to recover a long lost dwarven kingdom - there will be a lot of dungeon crawling I believe, so I think a dwarf is a perfect fit for undergroundin'
I get the feeling that the Inquisitor aspect would bring some 'darkness' and 'grim determination' to the character who is, after all, bent on revenge and destruction of those who have wronged his clan, as well as descovering the ultimate fate of his father and brothers.
On the other hand, I envision him as a focused type of guy (as opposed to boisterous) - he has trained for a long time for this, and honed himself as best as he can to carry out the task, so I was thinking that maybe a couple of Zen Archer levels could round him up quite nicely.
I've read a couple of things about mixing Zen Archer and Inquisitor, and the possible positive effects it could bring about, but I have never tried it, so I am looking for some advice on how to go about it.
We are starting at level 3, with a 20pt build, no traits, and the game should reach at least lvl20 hopefully. Right off the bat this causes me some doubt since I don't really see him 'becoming' an Inquisitor or a Zen Archer, so I guess I would like to start off with the two classes combined - do you think Zen Archer2/Inquisitor1 would be a good option? It would leave me on the brink of Zen Archer 3 which is sort of a tipping point.
I am also torn on how to balance the two classes, and consequently on the stat spread - should I 'dip' three levels in Zen Archer, and go Inquisitor all the way for the rest, or the other way around? The way I see it, the harm done in dipping ZA is taking longer to reach Bane and important spell levels, but reducing MADness by focusing more on Wisdom - coupled with something like Heresy conversion for buffing other skills (also still in doubt regarding Inquisitions vs. Domains). But there are many other goodies that can be obtained by going further with ZA levels (If I make him Qiggong I can get Barkskin, ki pool, ki arrows at 5th, etc.).
This kinda makes me hesitate also in the stat spread, but assuming a 3 lvl dip in ZA (I guess Wis to hit is always a win, right?), I could go:
STR 14
DEX 14
CON 12
INT 10
WIS 18
CHA 8
Feats:
Lvl1 - Inquisitor
Steel Soul
Lvl2 - ZA
Perfect Strike
Point-Blank Shot
Lvl3 - ZA
Precise Shot
Deadly Aim?
I think I might have a hard time for now, since at full force:
- Point Blank Shot
- Judgement of Sacred Justice
- Deadly Aim (perhaps I should delay this for another feat, and take Deadly Aim only at level 5? I get the feeling my damage would be less than impressive however)
I will be flurrying for only +5/+5 to hit, and d8+5 to damage which is not very impressive. At level 4, and taking another ZA level, everything would change though - to somethink like +8/+8 to hit, and d8+5 to damage.
Thoughts on the current level 3 idea and on level progression?
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It depends on what your focus is on; Archery? or Spell Casting etc?
If Archery, personally, I'd start ZAM and stick with it for awhile. At least until you have the archery feats squared away.
If it's more the Inquisitor slant you're after, come at it from the other direction.
Don't think of it as your character "becoming" an Inquisitor or ZAM at a later date - class is just a mechanical representation/expression of what or who the character he is.
Agreed, but from your perspective would you say that the combination works better than single class? Lets assume the main goal was archery - would single class ZA be better?
Well, worst case scenario, a 3 level dip in ZA would always make sense, would it not? Allowing the stats to be more focused on Wis?
Concentrating on one class almost always makes more sense in PF - you're rewarded for focusing. But multiclassing allows you to diversify your abilities and I would never discourage a player from creating a character a certain way in the interest of RP. If there are barriers to picking up classes after you start (e.g. training, mentors, religeous orders) you may need to start with both classes (or due to conception). You do need to decide where you'd like to focus long-term - are you an archer, or are you a spellcaster? If you're just buffing before combat and then an archer, a small splash into inquisitor would be appropriate. People can advise you on the optimal number of levels in this case. If you're mainly inquisitor with a bow, then maybe a max of 4 or 6 levels of ZAM makes the most sense to mine the class goodies (4 gives you most of them, 6 adds weapon specialization for free).
Thanks Kwauss.
I would definitely want to provide archery support to the group, which is heavily melee focused. So indeed that is a priority, but lately I have come to consider that spells can really make a difference - I mean, a ZA is a veritable force of nature when it comes to shooting an arrow, but what about the guy that shoots an arrow, but can also add more to it - I'm thinking stuff like Magic Weapon, or Gravity Bow, or maybe protect himself with a Blur or a Mirror Image spell, etc. - it seems to point to the fact that archery+spells not only adds versatility, but at the same time really does not diminish that much the archers' effectiveness at... Well, shooting arrows.
I admit my experience in this field is limited, but does this line of thought make sense? And does it make sense with an Inquisitor as the spellcasting class - do they sport 'adequate' archer buffs, or spells that otherwise have a good sinergy with using a ranged weapon? Or is this whole conversation only about using Bane and Judgement to the max? ;)
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Here's the thing; if you stay ZAM you get an "Improved Rapid Shot" mechanic when you flurry.
You also get Perfect Strike which is massively underrated.
From 1st to 9th level you roll 2d20's for your first arrow - in my experience my first arrow never misses.
My ZAM just turned 10th. So now I get to roll 3d20's and I took Improved Critical as my bonus feat... I got quite a few critical hits before - I'm fully expecting the frequency to really ramp up now.
I also took the Qingong Archetype which gives me some nifty tricks.
But now that I'm 10th level I may branch out an dip Inquisitor or Empyreal Sorcerer. My GM figures we'll only play this campaign until 16th level - which means I won't get the ZAM 'capstone' which basically comes at 17th level when you can start shooting stunning arrows.
Because you are a dwarf it is most advantageous to your race to be zen 3/inquisitor X. The favored class bonus for inquisitor dwarf is just awesome sauce. Combo with judgement surge and by the time you get to level 20 your going to be insanely good.
Aside from damage added from STR on composite bow nearly everything is covered by wisdom. The only real issue is 1) do you want to be a mouth and 2) what skills you want. Combat is covered already.
I don't know, Ki pool is pretty awesome to give up for 1 more level, along with a potential Qinggong power. With Wisdom as primary stat, that will probably be 3-6 extra spells/abilities.
If archery is your main focus then go 6 zen /14 inq because of
Improved Precise Shot (Combat)
Your ranged attacks ignore anything but total concealment and cover.
the best archer feat
mfg Grumpf
if you go 6/14 you loose the 6 spell grade and the one judgement
you gain ki arrow higher damagae with enlarge or righous might 2d6 or more monk robe
you gain 3 bab if you flurry with your bow and by softcover with is an +4
you gain 1 armor bonus (monk robe +2)
you lose three level of the dwarf judgement ist 24 to 21
Destruction: -1
Justice: no different
Piercing:-1
Purity: no lose
Resiliency no lose
Resistance: lose
Smiting: no lose use ki pool
my 50 cent
p.s focus as zenarcher can also work like 17/3 als good form zenarcher
if i did the math right yes
16 +8 = 24 |14+ 7 = 21
9 | 8 : Destruction
9 | 8: healing
5 | 5: Justice
9 | 8: Piercing
5 | 5 Protection
5 | 5: Purity
5 | 5 Resiliency
18 | 16 : Resistance
magic (lawful) adamite Smiting