| Aikidoka |
Hi all.
I've never actually had a character with natural attacks until now so I want to check the rules on this. I have a Tiefling and took the bite attack alternative racial trait.
If I am doing a full round action of attacks and using spell combat/spell strike is my bite attack -7 or the normal -5 for using natural attacks with weapon attacks?
This functions much like two-weapon fighting, but the off-hand weapon is a spell that is being cast. To use this ability, the magus must have one hand free (even if the spell being cast does not have somatic components), while wielding a light or one-handed melee weapon in the other hand. As a full-round action, he can make all of his attacks with his melee weapon at a –2 penalty and can also cast any spell from the magus spell list with a casting time of 1 standard action (any attack roll made as part of this spell also takes this penalty.)
I think it's the -7 but want a 2nd opinion.
Thanks.
thaX
|
So, clarifying, if you had a claw attack, you would be able to use it with Spell Combat/Spell Strike. Unfortunatly, you can not use a bite attack, as it is not associated with a hand.
Also, Keep in mind that you don't get the -5 to attack if you use the Bite as a primary attack.
| Claxon |
Actually he does get the -5 assuming he attacks with weapons as well, because any natural attack used in the same round as a manufactured weapon becomes a secondary attack.
Natural Attacks Most creatures possess one or more natural attacks (attacks made without a weapon). These attacks fall into one of two categories, primary and secondary attacks. Primary attacks are made using the creature's full base attack bonus and add the creature's full Strength bonus on damage rolls. Secondary attacks are made using the creature's base attack bonus –5 and add only 1/2 the creature's Strength bonus on damage rolls. If a creature has only one natural attack, it is always made using the creature's full base attack bonus and adds 1-1/2 times the creature's Strength bonus on damage rolls. This increase does not apply if the creature has multiple attacks but only takes one. If a creature has only one type of attack, but has multiple attacks per round, that attack is treated as a primary attack, regardless of its type. The natural attacks by size table lists some of the most common types of natural attacks and their classifications.
Some creatures treat one or more of their attacks differently, such as dragons, which always receive 1-1/2 times their Strength bonus on damage rolls with their bite attack. These exceptions are noted in the creature's description.
Creatures with natural attacks and attacks made with weapons can use both as part of a full attack action (although often a creature must forgo one natural attack for each weapon clutched in that limb, be it a claw, tentacle, or slam). Such creatures attack with their weapons normally but treat all of their available natural attacks as secondary attacks during that attack, regardless of the attack's original type.
blackbloodtroll
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At 1st level, a magus learns to cast spells and wield his weapons at the same time. This functions much like two-weapon fighting, but the off-hand weapon is a spell that is being cast. To use this ability, the magus must have one hand free (even if the spell being cast does not have somatic components), while wielding a light or one-handed melee weapon in the other hand. As a full-round action, he can make all of his attacks with his melee weapon at a –2 penalty and can also cast any spell from the magus spell list with a casting time of 1 standard action (any attack roll made as part of this spell also takes this penalty). If he casts this spell defensively, he can decide to take an additional penalty on his attack rolls, up to his Intelligence bonus, and add the same amount as a circumstance bonus on his concentration check. If the check fails, the spell is wasted, but the attacks still take the penalty. A magus can choose to cast the spell first or make the weapon attacks first, but if he has more than one attack, he cannot cast the spell between weapon attacks.
| Aikidoka |
Spell Strike, and Spell Combat, are two different things.
You can certainly use Spell Strike with a Bite.
Yes I know they are different things but they are effectively the same part of a full round action.
My question and the goal I am looking to achieve is to make two attacks with my sword, one of which is delivering a touch attack spell and to also make a bite attack. Is this legal?
I don't see anything in the FAQ or the rules for Spell combat that would prevent this. So as it's a full round attack and from what Claxon quoted nothing has made the bite unavailable.
| Pupsocket |
Pupsocket wrote:Spell Combat allows you to attack with a weapon held in one hand, or a natural attack associated with one hand.Can you cite that? Thats not how I remember it, and I dont have the book with me.
This FAQ
Magus, Spell Combat: When using spell combat, do I specifically have to use the weapon in my other hand, or can I use a mixture of weapons (such as armor spikes and bites) so long as my casting hand remains free?
You specifically have to use the light or one-handed melee weapon in your other hand.Back to Top
and this:
Magus, Spell Combat: If I use spell combat, how many weapon attacks can I make?
You can make as many weapon attacks as you would normally be able to make if you were making a full attack with that weapon. For example, if you are an 8th-level magus (BAB +6/+1), you could make two weapon attacks when using spell combat.Edit 9/9/13: This is a revised ruling about how haste interacts with effects that are essentially a full attack, even though the creature isn't specifically using the full attack action (as required by haste). The earlier ruling implied that spell combat did not allow the extra attack from haste (because spell combat was not using the full attack action).
| Slacker2010 |
This FAQ
Bah, Crazy FAQs.
Yes I know they are different things but they are effectively the same part of a full round action.
My question and the goal I am looking to achieve is to make two attacks with my sword, one of which is delivering a touch attack spell and to also make a bite attack. Is this legal?
Yes, You should get your full attack routine: Primary with attacks according to your BAB (-2, sword) + secondary natural attacks [bite at -5(-7)] + the free attack from casting the spell using spellstrike (at Full BAB-2 that has to be with the sword, not the bite as I just learned).
| Suma3da |
May also want to take a look at the Natual Spell Combat Arcana that came out in the Blood of the Moon book last year. It lets you use Spell Combat with any natural weapon and get a +2 on concentration checks.
The Morphling
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Pupsocket wrote:This FAQBah, Crazy FAQs.
Aikidoka wrote:Yes, You should get your full attack routine: Primary with attacks according to your BAB (-2, sword) + secondary natural attacks [bite at -5(-7)] + the free attack from casting the spell using spellstrike (at Full BAB-2 that has to be with the sword, not the bite as I just learned).Yes I know they are different things but they are effectively the same part of a full round action.
My question and the goal I am looking to achieve is to make two attacks with my sword, one of which is delivering a touch attack spell and to also make a bite attack. Is this legal?
You can spellstrike using the bite. Why wouldn't you be able to?
thaX
|
Thank you BBT.
If you only use the bite, that is when it turns into a primary attack. It was an aside seperate from what is related to Spell Combat. When you use the bite as a part of an overall attack with weapons, it is secondary and has the -5 to hit and X 0.5 str bonus damage.
Sorry if my Bitting comment confused some.