Sundering


Rules Questions

Grand Lodge

I am the GM for WoTR and there are a few of the Demons who can use sunder with no AoO. I have honestly never sundered an item before, does it become a lot of math and micro managing to do this CM? Is it worth it or should they just be fixed with a better CM?

Sczarni

The charts in the CRB should be all you need.

First, it's the Demon's CMB vs. the PC's CMD.

If that's a success, the Demon does damage to the item its sundering.

Apply whatever hardness you determine the item has. 5 for wood, 10 for steel, 15 for mithral, 20 for adamantine, +2 for each magical enhancement.

Whatever damage gets through is applied to the item's hit points, which you can also figure out using those charts.

Once the item is at half hit points, it gains the broken condition. For weapons that means -2 attack/damage, and it only crits on a natural 20.

For Armor I can't recall if it's -2 to the Armor Bonus or the Armor Bonus is halved.

Once the item reaches zero hit points it is destroyed, and can only be repaired with a Make Whole spell.

It's fairly easy to do if you're practiced. Try making up a couple scenarios beforehand and test your math skills. Sundering is one of those tactics that scares PCs more than actual damage.

Sczarni

Also, as a word of advice, it's much easier to sunder small items, like light blades, than it is heavy armor. The Demons will likely be aware of that. Hacking away at the Fighter's full plate over the course of 3 rounds might not be the best tactic, but targeting his bastard sword in 1 or 2 rounds would be.

Holy symbols can generally be destroyed in one hit, too. Or spell component pouches.

The Exchange Owner - D20 Hobbies

Nefreet wrote:
Holy symbols can generally be destroyed in one hit, too. Or spell component pouches.

This is the best (most effective) thing to slow/stop PC power and when done the PC (if they survive) will like you better. Because destroying their +3 Holy Longsword will get them down.

Silver Crusade

James Risner wrote:
Nefreet wrote:
Holy symbols can generally be destroyed in one hit, too. Or spell component pouches.
This is the best (most effective) thing to slow/stop PC power and when done the PC (if they survive) will like you better. Because destroying their +3 Holy Longsword will get them down.

Or they may really resent you because if you destroy something like the component pouch/holy symbols, you may be making their character completely ineffective for the rest of the play session and further depending on their class and build, and how you rule the sundered pouch. You have to be careful with sundering those kinds of items (where, when, who etc).

What may seem like a "I'm going to force them out of their comfort zone" to you looks to them as "Wow, this guy is kind of an ass. Now I'm sitting here firing my crossbow for the next hour when I should be buffing/aiding the group". If that was done to my Ranger it would be "Oh, that sucks. I guess I can go without some of my utility for a while. I'm going to need to find a different plan of attack than usual. *continues swinging Earthbreaker*". If done to something like a Wizard without Eschew Materials or an extra component pouch tucked away near the beginning of the session you basically delegated them to the job of "Stand back and try not to die" until they find a way to get another pouch.


One thing to keep in mind is that there are a lot of class features and weapons that provide bonuses to sunder or sunder defense. (For example, a Weapon Master fighter archetype gets a scaling bonus vs. sunder and disarm.) However, since sunder is so rarely used, odds are pretty good that your players are not aware of these or have completely forgotten about them.

If you want to surprise the players with the sunder, I'd suggest getting a copy of their character sheet and making a note of any bonuses vs. sunder. That way, you don't have the players coming back later and saying, "Hey, I forgot about this--that shouldn't have worked last time."

If you don't care whether your players are surprised, you might just mention to them that there might be some combat maneuvers coming up and that they should double check their bonuses against each type of combat maneuver.

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