5 questions reguarding horse mount

[Mike Grate]

1. Can my mount critical hit? I've been playing a little and rolled a natural 20 during my horses attack. We weren't sure if my horse could crit (It didn't matter because I did the confirmation roll and couldn't crit anyway) but I wanted to be sure if, because the horse is my mount and is attacking with me, it could critical hit on a natural 20 or not (I'm assuming that if it can it's a 2x hit). I searched for this issue and haven't found anything on it.

2. Can my horses hooves both attack? The way both the druid page and bestiary write the attack (2 hooves) is the same way the attack for a giant crab (2 claws) is written. I fought a giant crab in one of the dungeons I was in and it was able to attack with both claws so am I able to do this also?

3. Can I attack with all of the attacks? My character hits (currently 1 hit as the bab is only 2) then my horse bites then hoof attack (or 2 if the question above turns out to be yes). I'm pretty sure I can attack with all attacks during my turn but just wanted to clarify.

4.Does my horse roll it's own initiative or go with mine? This hasn't caused any issues (the horse just went on my turn) but I wanted to make sure.

5. Is the 2-hooves attack attack a primary or secondary natural? The context is that my horse is combat trained (I did it pre-first dungeon). The two arguments are as follows:
1. 2-hooves becomes a primary attack. Combat training (also called war training) takes away the docile nature. The bestiary says,
"Docile (Ex) Unless specifically trained for combat (see the Handle Animal skill, a horse's hooves are treated as secondary attacks."
So therefore because I trained my horse for combat the 2-hooves attacks also becomes a primary attack (along with bite)
2. 2-hooves remains a secondary. Because the horse that a cavalier gets for a mount is clearly different from the one listed in the bestiary page we have to use everything from the druid page. The Druid page stated that 2-hooves is a secondary attack but doesn't give the docile nature to the horse. So, because it never had the docile nature even though it's combat trained it keeps the 2-hooves as a secondary attack (keeps it as written on the Druid page).
I've found a lot on this issue but nothing is conclusive so any help on this issue and the others would be appreciated.

[Ipslore the Red]

1. Yes. Natural attacks are 20/x2 unless otherwise indicated.

2. Yes, as part of a full attack.

3. Yes, but your horse does not have a bite attack. It has 2 hooves, and that's it.

4. Your mount acts on your initiative.

5. If it is combat trained, primary. If not, secondary.

[Mike Grate]

Thank you for the help. But when you say my horse doesn't have the bite attack, does that mean it can't use the bite attack if I do the other 3 (my character and the 2-hooves) or it simply no longer knows bite since it now has the 2-hooves (better of course but it could matter in some random unlikely situation)?

[Pupsocket]

Mike Grate wrote:

1. Can my mount critical hit? I've been playing a little and rolled a natural 20 during my horses attack. We weren't sure if my horse could crit (It didn't matter because I did the confirmation roll and couldn't crit anyway) but I wanted to be sure if, because the horse is my mount and is attacking with me, it could critical hit on a natural 20 or not (I'm assuming that if it can it's a 2x hit). I searched for this issue and haven't found anything on it.

Yes, every attack (that doesn't have another critical hit specified) crits on a 20 for x2 damage.

Quote:

2. Can my horses hooves both attack? The way both the druid page and bestiary write the attack (2 hooves) is the same way the attack for a giant crab (2 claws) is written. I fought a giant crab in one of the dungeons I was in and it was able to attack with both claws so am I able to do this also?

3. Can I attack with all of the attacks? My character hits (currently 1 hit as the bab is only 2) then my horse bites then hoof attack (or 2 if the question above turns out to be yes). I'm pretty sure I can attack with all attacks during my turn but just wanted to clarify.

When you full attack - a full round action that leaves you with only a 5' step for movement - you can use all your attacks. Creatures with natural attacks can use each oh them; most PCs get multiple attacks from high base attack bonus, two-weapon fighting, or special class abilities.

Quote:

4.Does my horse roll it's own initiative or go with mine? This hasn't caused any issues (the horse just went on my turn) but I wanted to make sure.

Mounts go on you initiative. Many people house rule that all companions go on your initiative, but the mount going with you is in the rules.

Quote:

5. Is the 2-hooves attack attack a primary or secondary natural? The context is that my horse is combat trained (I did it pre-first dungeon). The two arguments are as follows:
2. 2-hooves remains a secondary. Because the horse that a cavalier gets for a mount is clearly different from the one listed in the bestiary page we have to use everything from the druid page. The Druid page stated that 2-hooves is a secondary attack but doesn't give the docile nature to...

I never spotted that problem before, let me check for a sec.

[Pupsocket]

AFAICT, the horse companion has secondary attacks until level 4.

[Ipslore the Red]

Actually, about the bite, it seems I was mistaken. I used the light horse's page for statistics, but I should have used the heavy horse's page, since it says only heavy horses can be combat trained as yours is. Heavy horses do indeed have a bite attack, so you can indeed use all three of those in your horse's full attack.

[Pupsocket]

Mike Grate wrote:

Thank you for the help. But when you say my horse doesn't have the bite attack, does that mean it can't use the bite attack if I do the other 3 (my character and the 2-hooves) or it simply no longer knows bite since it now has the 2-hooves (better of course but it could matter in some random unlikely situation)?

A quick look-up tells us that Ipslore made a mistake. The horse companion has a bite attack.

[Mike Grate]

Thanks to both of you for the help. Also, Pupsocket, what changes at level 4 that makes the 2-hooves a primary? I've already combat trained the horse so is there something else that I missed?

[Pupsocket]

The srd entry on the Horse companion references the Handle Animal skill. The entry in the actual book references the Bestiary. The only way the level 4 Combat Trained (see Bestiary) ability makes any sense is to have it make the hooves a primary attack.

[Mike Grate]

Pupsocket wrote:

The srd entry on the Horse companion references the Handle Animal skill. The entry in the actual book references the Bestiary. The only way the level 4 Combat Trained (see Bestiary) ability makes any sense is to have it make the hooves a primary attack.

Right, but since I combat trained it already, doesn't that mean I get the benefits of combat training the horse already(making the 2-hooves attack primary)? Then when the horse reaches level 4 I just gain the strength and constitution.

[Starglim]

Mike Grate wrote:

Pupsocket wrote:

The srd entry on the Horse companion references the Handle Animal skill. The entry in the actual book references the Bestiary. The only way the level 4 Combat Trained (see Bestiary) ability makes any sense is to have it make the hooves a primary attack.

Right, but since I combat trained it already, doesn't that mean I get the benefits of combat training the horse already(making the 2-hooves attack primary)? Then when the horse reaches level 4 I just gain the strength and constitution.

Yes, that's right. If you train the horse for the purpose of combat, if you're a standard cavalier, or if you buy a warhorse with gold, its hooves become primary attacks immediately.

[Mike Grate]

Thank you for clarifying.