spring attack is hated. and i cant understand why.
yes, full attacks or vital strike hippo is 200% more damage. i agree.
but the numbers is not all.
a druid, in low magic worlds where wild armors is not a given item, have some soft spots.
in a group where THERE IS a main fighter, a druid is more of a skirmish full caster.
i love to play a balance druid, with str of 16 and wis of 18 at lvl 8.
so i can cast, summon and melee.
so, as a fragile druid (low armor and d8 HP ) that love melee i use it a lot with :
tactics:
1. fly spell / fly creature will give you fly by maneuvers. working great Vs non range foes.
2. burrow / earth gliding with tremor boots to "see" will make you almost immortal. attacking and vanishing. its... amazing! i soloed a colossal zombie like that.
3. cast a spell to make huge area hampered area , cast feather step - and watch your foe cry.
4. teach your animal companion bull rush / cast aspect of the bear - let it push the opponents that are 5' away so you can spring attack.
why not spring attack ?
1. it cost 3 feats! losing gems like planar wild shape+ vital strike+ lunge is painful.
2. its a lot less damage
why take it ?
1. as a druid you cant be killed...
2. it works on all movement modes .
3. as a druid you got more movement than most
4. you can attack from Sq of friends.
|
1 person marked this as a favorite.
|
It's not worth the investment. It absolutely will keep you alive longer. It will also keep you enemy alive longer. Every round you prolong a fight is more opportunities for the enemy to damage your team, causing you to expend more resources than you would have if you stood and fought.
Using Spring Attack is increasing personal survival at the expense of party members. It's selfish.
Significant feat investment to be less useful in combat, no thanks.
Really, talking about Druids is talking about 2 builds with the same chassis. Melee Druids are the front line damage. If you have a fighter, he is just you but less useful outside of combat. Caster Druids are the battlefield control. They shouldn't be wasting actions on attacking in the first place.
Gregory Connolly wrote: Really, talking about Druids is talking about 2 builds with the same chassis. Melee Druids are the front line damage. If you have a fighter, he is just you but less useful outside of combat. Caster Druids are the battlefield control. They shouldn't be wasting actions on attacking in the first place. Like real life, I want it all ;)
I cast and fight as battle dictates
Imbicatus wrote: It's not worth the investment. It absolutely will keep you alive longer. It will also keep you enemy alive longer. Every round you prolong a fight is more opportunities for the enemy to damage your team, causing you to expend more resources than you would have if you stood and fought.
Using Spring Attack is increasing personal survival at the expense of party members. It's selfish.
There is another view, current me if I am wrong :
Attacking me, low armor and medium hp will get me killed , but in resources more.
If I am attacking g in and out, the enemy will attack the fighter .
The fighter will get all the founded protection gear, more armor clas, more hp, we focus on healing him.
No?
Except you shouldn't be low armor. You AC can easily match or beat a fighter. Wild Armor, Barkskin, and a possible one level dip into monk will make your AC every bit as good as the fighter.
HP is only one per level lower than the fighter, which can be made up for with a FCB or Toughness if you really feel the need.
666bender wrote: There is another view, current me if I am wrong :
Attacking me, low armor and medium hp will get me killed , but in resources more.
If I am attacking g in and out, the enemy will attack the fighter .
The fighter will get all the founded protection gear, more armor clas, more hp, we focus on healing him.
No?
You know the game you are in and the people who play in it better than internet posters possibly could. Perhaps the situation will work out that way. If anyone in any group I play in tried it it would have bad consequences. Monsters would ignore both you and the fighter to try and geek the mage. Enemies understand the way game physics work in our games (basically everyone who isn't mindless is genre savvy) and they focus fire just like PCs do.
What you are describing is effective team play, basically each person does something well and together it works better than any individual. That doesn't happen very often in my experience, mostly because so many gamers have been burned by violated social contracts. If you have a group that is pulling it off more power to you.
666bender wrote: Imbicatus wrote: It's not worth the investment. It absolutely will keep you alive longer. It will also keep you enemy alive longer. Every round you prolong a fight is more opportunities for the enemy to damage your team, causing you to expend more resources than you would have if you stood and fought.
Using Spring Attack is increasing personal survival at the expense of party members. It's selfish.
There is another view, current me if I am wrong :
Attacking me, low armor and medium hp will get me killed , but in resources more.
If I am attacking g in and out, the enemy will attack the fighter .
The fighter will get all the founded protection gear, more armor clas, more hp, we focus on healing him.
No? No wild armors, not until very high level and even then it want be custom (max hide ....)
So, dex +1 after size , some natural armor is really low armor class ....
Monk level will even the score ( but won't stuck with armor. )
With DR of planar wildnshape it's .... Even a bit more .
Armor is the lower 20 before barkskin
Fighter has : full plate +1 ( easier found ) (10), shield +2 ( 4), dex (3) = 27 before barks kin , natural armor or whatever .
All this while doing from 2d6 +9 (str)+6(pa) +1(GMf) + X as a flyer vulture / more as a rhino with base of 4d8 ....
Gregory Connolly wrote: 666bender wrote: There is another view, current me if I am wrong :
Attacking me, low armor and medium hp will get me killed , but in resources more.
If I am attacking g in and out, the enemy will attack the fighter .
The fighter will get all the founded protection gear, more armor clas, more hp, we focus on healing him.
No?
You know the game you are in and the people who play in it better than internet posters possibly could. Perhaps the situation will work out that way. If anyone in any group I play in tried it it would have bad consequences. Monsters would ignore both you and the fighter to try and geek the mage. Enemies understand the way game physics work in our games (basically everyone who isn't mindless is genre savvy) and they focus fire just like PCs do.
What you are describing is effective team play, basically each person does something well and together it works better than any individual. That doesn't happen very often in my experience, mostly because so many gamers have been burned by violated social contracts. If you have a group that is pulling it off more power to you. We are not there yet , but I try to.....
You see, Druid got X spells per day. Let's take second level:
Barkskin, bulls, bears , cats - amazing spells .
If I need to spread the effort between me, fighter and more - we each have 1 barkskin - lasting several hours - not nearly enough.
If I spring attack, I only barkskin. The fighter - who will be protected almost all day long .
Yes, monsters aren't stupid - but the fighter is a good locker , and won't be Ignored ..
The magus can hold a line alone , with dex build, mirror image and shield spells .
With spring attack I am standing. Way behind - attacking in and out - summoning and casting .
And when the fighter drop - I push the opponent back and force him to attack a fresh opponent - while fighter drink a potion.
The alternative to those 3 feats would be :
Augument summoning + planar wild-shape- a summoner and possible off tank
Or
Vital strike + lunge + planar wild-shape - a reach DR heavy mobile 1 hitter .
I had typed out a very long response, but my browser crashed and ate it.
Suffice to say, that you playstyle is different than any game I have played in, where relying on a high fighter to lock down an enemy is not going to be successful, and where using hit and run tactics via Spring Attack will mean the party is taking more damage than they should.
A melee focused druid can be built to have just as much defense as a fighter while relying on forms to provide reach if a little bit of melee buffer is needed.
For games I have played in Spring attack is a terrible waste of resources that will hurt your team.
But if it works in your game, good for you. There is no such thing as badwrongfun, after all.
Fragile characters don't normally go into melee so that is a corner case, and even then it is a bad idea to use spring attack. If you do enough damage your fragile character will draw attention and increase the chance of it being killed.
None of the above is a good case for spring attack to be a good feat. They are just ways to get more use out of it, and many are corner cases.
With the way I run my game using various enemies you are still likely to die. Even looking at AP's you will face more enemies that are humanoid than not, so they may have ranged weapons.
|
