http://dndtools.eu/classes/dragon-shaman/
First of all, there's a lot of consensus that the class has some shortcomings. In converting them to pathfinder, I think there's an argument to give them d12's first of all (as dragon disciples get) and also to argue for some abilities to come at earlier levels, such as wings, when compared to the sorcerer bloodline.
But if you do that much of a conversion, rather than just a straight take over, what would you argue for their 20th level finale feature to be? Just interested in hearing opinions on how to convert this class. I like the idea and theme of the class, but some of the mechanics and features are a bit disappointing. Most famously, in the book (PHB2) they didn't have Knowledge (Arcana), but I think it was ret-conned; being a dragon anything without any knowledge of dragons would be a bit stupid.
I thought the problem with the dragon shaman was that the breath weapon was both too weak, in that it wasn't impressive to do unmodified fireball damage at level twenty, and too strong if you allowed metabreath feats to modify a breath attack multiple times because they only increased the recharge interval. If I were to do a conversion, I would alter that class feature. In fact, I would probably remove it all together and give the dragon shaman a polymorph spell like that functioned similarly to the summoner summon class feature.
I would also increase skills by two... I may think of more, but the above would certainly change.
I might agree, but I think the key difference between Dragon Shaman and Dragon Discipline originally is DS is more front-line with auras, armor, and (at the time) a much better version of Lay on Hands where as Dragon Discipline supplemented a sorcerer's survivability, gave him some neat dragon themed abilities, but altogether somewhat weak too.
In pathfinder, dragon disciple is way better and Dragon Form is great for them, but I think it would be unique to keep the role difference and more interesting. A dragon themed class that, rather than changing into a dragon, gets a lot of a dragon's toughness and powers first hand. I agree the breath weapon is somewhat weak, but it is identical to a dragon's and can be used a lot more than a wizard can use fireball (unless he memorizes it many, many times).
I would have to be more for strengthening than removing it, to keep it different from dragon disciple, otherwise both classes end game is to go into dragon form when in a bind and there wouldn't be too much difference otherwise.
Well I would probably update their healing to work like Pathfinder's Paladins (complete with mercies - maybe with extra mercies, actually). For giving the breath weapon a little extra without metabreath feats, I would take a page from the 3.5 Warlock class and add something like their eldritch blast modifying invocations. Or maybe just write it up so it'll work with a Conductive weapon? That's a pretty big buff.
As for a capstone level 20 ability, I think a dragon form ability fits well there. Maybe swift action to change form, 10 rounds/day, not necessarily consecutive. Maybe more. It's hard to say how it balances with other level 20 abilities. I can brainstorm on it. I liked the class too. :)
I think it would be better if it's something that coincided with the dragon color you picked, preferably not something energy related since the class already has to worry about creatures immune to its breath weapon, but to begin figuring out what those would be, I would also alter a lot of the at will powers and possibly the skills gained by dragon type. Honestly, I think the whole what-you-get-by-dragon-type needs to be overhauled, especially for pathfinder, other than the energy type for each dragon.
However, based on what we have, for a level 20 ability, let's say you picked the red dragon as your totem. Maybe for level 20, you could get a permanent +2 STR, discern location and find the path at will. This may be too weak or powerful - just brain storming right now. Overall, I would integrate each dragon's unique spell-like abilities more into the class, make you -more- like that dragon color rather than "here's two unique skills, one spell-like ability at will, and a energy breath weapon" as the only difference. Maybe instead of at will, give them more SLA's and give them a point pool similar to grit - by level 20, here's all of a red dragon's unique spell like abilities (total of 6) and they're usable a number of times, in any combination, equal to your CON modifier (since that's what breath weapon also uses, so keep it CON for class synergy).
Granting the class some spell likes for each color type would be a great addition to the class in general actually. Very flavorful. If you keep it at 3/4 bab you might grant it the half dragon template over the class level progression. There is actually a lot of options if you think about dragons and dragon related features that already exist within the system.
Granting the class some spell likes for each color type would be a great addition to the class in general actually. Very flavorful. If you keep it at 3/4 bab you might grant it the half dragon template over the class level progression. There is actually a lot of options if you think about dragons and dragon related features that already exist within the system.
Yes, I started looking over some of the other dragons, it really does add a strong theme. Blue dragon types get illusion SLAs and the like, I think that would be a perfect addition to bring it on par with other pathfinder classes before changing anything else. I was thinking maybe every 3? or 4 levels, they get a new SLA at will.
Right now, I'm at this:
A. More Skills (4 or 6)
B. Aura Changes (I think they should have less auras, such as 4 or 5 in total, and make each aura stronger since at least half of them are pathetic)
C. Add thematic SLAs based on dragon type (Deciding if they should be at-will or a number of times per day: thoughts?)
D. Full or 3/4th BAB (Personally, I'd like to balance the class for Full BAB, but I'd live with 3/4ths)
E. Increased breath weapon damage and no use of metabreath feats (15d6 at level 20? or full 20d6?)
F. Some other combat addition. Natural Weapons? Energy attacks a number of times per day?
Any feedback by anyone reading is appreciated, just brainstorming/building right now.
For C. I vote for both :). I think that when you get your first sla it should be 1/day. 4 levels later, the shaman gets a second sla 1/day and the first becomes 3/day, after three the sla becomes unlimited. That way you end up with a couple unlimited, a 3/day and a 1/day higher level sla.
D. I think that the original chassis was 3/4, but luckily theres a handy dandy half dragon template that you acquire to catch up on to hit chance, or at least something like the shaman gets full bab with natural weapons granted from levels or something.
E. I am sort of tempted to suggest that instead of adding more die, the shaman instead gets to add his con modifier to damage. It is appropriate I think within the context of the dragons breath.
Additionally, you could add different ways to modify breath attacks into the class chassis. I am thinking along the lines of the chromatic dragons having secondary breath attacks like steam or stunning roars with reduced sonic damage.... that would be pretty awesome... "THUM!"