My question is this: Do synthesists who pick up the half-dragon template gain the +4 natural armor bonus while fused?
My GM says no according to his understanding of the rules. HeroLab and I say yes. RAW indicates that it would stack.
I'll present the relevant rules and let you all decide.
d20pfsrd wrote: Synthesist: The synthesist uses the eidolon’s base attack bonus, and gains the eidolon’s armor and natural armor bonuses and modifiers to ability scores. It says above that he gains the armor bonus, not that he uses it, as with base attack right before the bolded text. Point in favor, 1-0
If you scroll down a bit under Creating a Half-Dragon, you will read:
Paizo wrote: Half-Dragon: "Armor Class: Nat. armor improves by +4." The bonus says that it IMPROVES by four. This implies that it is added to the existing number. 2-0
d20pfsrd wrote: Eidolon: The number noted here is the eidolon’s base total armor bonus. This bonus may be split between an armor bonus and a natural armor bonus, as decided by the summoner. This number is modified by the eidolon’s base form and some options available through its evolution pool. An eidolon cannot wear armor of any kind, as the armor interferes with the summoner’s connection to the eidolon. This is the only thing I could find restricting when an eidolon would gain an armor bonus. I have included it for for the sake of completeness, but it isn't really relevant since there is no actual armor being worn. Maybe worth half a point. 2-0.5.
As you can see, according to RAW it all stacks. I'm fine with GM rulings, but he can usually be persuaded by a well-constructed arguement.
Hero lab is extremely unreliable for this kind of complicated thing. Heck, even the rules as written are not reliable for this kind of complicated thing since they usually just assume you are a normal human.
Another part of the problem here is that the synthesist is rather much....a mess. It pretty much uses 3.5 rules for transmutation, when pathfinder rewrote those rules to prevent that kind of madness (As seen with druidzilla)
If we are going by the transmutation rules (Which seem the closest to what you would deal with here, and would be what your GM is using for his judgment) then your natural form is covered and thus your natural attacks, special abilities tied to form, and natural armor do not work. The fact that your natural ability scores are replaced in this particular instance also indicates that you are not using your own body.
If we look further into this, it kind of makes even more sense. Your eidolon's hit points are added onto your own as temporary hit points (which are taken out before your own hit points when you get hit). So that kind of means that, as the creature that you are wearing over your own form, it is taking the hits instead of you. Just because it is squishier than you (and that you can send your hit points to it to keep it from dying) doesn't change that.
Overall-I have to agree with your GM with this decision. Not only does it try to apply the general logic of the rest of the game to this complicated problem, but it also prevents more of a powerup. I know this is likely a high power game with templates and synthesists and all...but you have to draw the line somewhere.
I'd have to agree.
BUT!
If you have the eidolon's armor be metal armor, as is an option, you have a little more of a case.
It really comes down to the GM and how he feels about it. If he says no then it doesn't matter, it is his ruling. That said...
I do disagree with lemeres in one way, his description indicates the Eidolon is nothing more than a shell or armor you wear. In the case of the desciption of the class
Rather than summon an eidolon to serve by his side, the synthesist fuses his eidolon’s essence to his own. Instead of two creatures, the synthesist is a fusion of the summoner and eidolon into a single being.
Under the Fusion Eidolon description it states
The synthesist uses the eidolon’s base attack bonus, and gains the eidolon’s armor and natural armor bonuses and modifiers to ability scores.
It does state in the second paragraph that the summoner loses his armor. (this is where the GM can declare that is both natural armor and the armor that the summoner may be wearing).
It further says
While fused with his eidolon, the synthesist can use all of his own abilities and gear, except for his armor.
So with all this taken into consideration, I'd say yes, he would get the +4 as it is a natural ability of his race. If this was denied due to the fusion, than all other racial abilities would be lost as well.
Pathfinder Starfinder Society Subscriber
But in this case the synthesist and the eidolon both have natural armor bonuses, which being of the same type should not stack. The most generous reasonable reading would be that when fused he uses whichever of the two values is higher.
I do believe the rules say natural armor is the one that stacks or is that luck or competence..?
edit: Ok, looked up the bonuses, its Dodge that stacks with itself.
So after looking over the natural ac and half dragon.
This is still kinda GM call though the half dragon states:
Natural armor bonus improves by +4.
So if its ruled that its a natural ability that becomes part of the eidolon it would stack. Such as playing a humanoid which states having a +2 natural armor. The levels as you raise give a bonus to ac to be divided as the player wants as either armor or natural ac, it would be stacking with the +2 previously given.
In this example, as leveling up only improves the existing armor class, i'd still say it stacks, mainly because the leveling system of the eidolon means its just getting tougher as it gets more powerful. The bonus form leveling isn't an enhancement bonus
Armor Bonus
The number noted here is the eidolon’s base total armor bonus. This bonus may be split between an armor bonus and a natural armor bonus, as decided by the summoner. This number is modified by the eidolon’s base form and some options available through its evolution pool.
ashuramarsh wrote: I do disagree with lemeres in one way, his description indicates the Eidolon is nothing more than a shell or armor you wear. In the case of the desciption of the class
Rather than summon an eidolon to serve by his side, the synthesist fuses his eidolon’s essence to his own. Instead of two creatures, the synthesist is a fusion of the summoner and eidolon into a single being.
....first of your actual abilities....
Ultimate magic wrote: A synthesist summons the essence of a powerful outsider to meld with his own being. The synthesist wears the eidolon like translucent, living armor. The problem here is that, due to the fact that this archetype goes against the standard rules to such a large extent, it is hard to separate the fluff and RAW it provides, and it is hard to see how it fits with the RAW of the core rules.
I've given my two bits: the easiest way to handle this is through transmutation rules.
Now, the 'always +4 armor' argument is something that needs to addressed. Generally, such bonuses are only applied when you are in your original form. Of course, there are exceptions. You can still benefit from them if they come from an ability that allows you to add things on (the rules give sorcerer bloodline claws as an example, but it would remain equally true if it was something such as the natural armor from a barbarian with beat totem). I mean, you aren't also going to argue that you still keep your fly speed when your wings are covered up, are you?
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