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that would make sense. He may be on Team Flash but Wally is an Alchemy created Meta and that ties him to Savitar
Good point, but then why even make a deal with Barry? Just capture him and be done with it. Hell, even kill him if he's that much of a threat.If he had her all along, why bother with Flash and friends. She's powerful and skilled enough to have helped him overthrow Solovar.If Grodd never intended to honor his deal with Barry, then capturing Barry made good sense because taking the Flash out of the picture would make his attack on Earth 1 that much easier.
Let's not forget the point of 'Barry' was to kill Solovar since Grodd couldn't. He wanted to rule the others. Gypsy wasn't going to do that.
Though there were still a ridiculous amount of hoops to jump through to get Barry there... but whatever.
Grey,
Exactly. Much like Alchemy is still tied to Julian (but not as strongly), since Wally got his Speed Force connection through Savitar/Philosopher's Stone, he can probably see Savitar more clearly than most. Even if he's not physically there.
Phantom,
I think the point is proving Barry's is more than sum of his Speed. But we'll see now.
Well overall they've improved Grodd a great deal. I just wish they'd get someone to write SMART characters as....you know SMART.
So It didn't say who gypsy was actually after right? Kind of overly convenient otherwise It was an ok episode.
Vid,
No. But I'm assuming Accelerated Man has a larger role to play than just a cameo. But I could be wrong.
Accelerated Man?
A-Zombie,
I liked his Multiversity series. Plus Final Crisis wasn't NEARLY as bad as say, Countdown to Infinite Crisis.
Plus the fact not all of Morrison's characters are as crappy as Damien.
I agree reckless.
Could also be why wally is growing in speed so fast.
This guy
Okay. I guess I blinked and missed that scene.
Green,
I'm not sure that's true (IE Wally become Savitar). But I could be wrong.
I do agree they need smarter writing at TIMES. But not sure that the swerve you see is the same one as I see.
I do think Wally will end up freeing Savitar, just not taken over by him.
Finally, Final Crisis I thought worked fine WITHOUT needing to incorporate Blackest Night. Mostly because I felt that Darkseid is a threat to life, Nekron to all of existence. Big difference. Plus Black Lantern rings aren't Anti-life, they are just the end of it. Also the reboot for it wasn't necessary in my mind because of Superman saving all of reality.
my bigger issue is all the conversation they have during the fight. The speed that Barry is zooming around town, he really doesn't have time for the detailed instructions and brainstorming sessions they have over comms...
This from the crowd that argues that since speech is free one should be able to recite the Gettysburg address in a six second turn as a free action.
Drah,
I generally keep the speaking stuff under five sentences.
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Well, that was depressing....
From the conversations with Savitron via the Julian Phone, it seems that at some future point the person who becomes Savitron will be a normal person who gives himself super speed, then Barry traps him in the speed force, thus leading to his eventual evolution into Savitron. I'm wondering if his appearance is actually a suit, designed to give speed powers, and it becomes fused to (and a part of him) when he's trapped in the speed force.
Of course, if Barry really wants to stop all this, he really just has to try his damndest to NOT imprison whomever it is in the speed force in the first place. Unless.....
Why did someone (as in Wally) have to take Savitron's place in the speed force? Did Savitron take someone else's place? Is that how they'll eventually get Wally back? Barry has to make the sacrifice of knowing he's intentionally creating Savitron, by imprisoning future Savitron in the speed force, just so he can get Wally back? It's kind of a time loop/paradox. If he never throws future Savitron into the timestream, then Wally would never have to take actual Savitron's place. Then again if that happened, Wally would (theoretically) not have his super speed.
Why was the Philosopher's Stone necessary to free Savitron? Will they need it again, to rescue Wally and/or imprison future Savitron?
Seems like Iris' death is a pretty foregone conclusion at this point. And, you know what? I'm okay with that. She was quick enough to drop Barry like a bad habit when he moved up the timetable for them being engaged, just to save her life. Kind of a dick move on her part. Once she's dead, Patty can come back and make Barry happy.
Lots of questions. Lots of needlessly complex plot points.
Hey, though! Maybe this will automatically give them the speed villain they need for next season. The future Savitron can get his speed and start menacing everyone. Of course, then we'd know how it ended.....
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I was thinking Wally too, but some of the episode comes across as weird if that is the case.
I still think Savitar is someone else. Perhaps someone the Waverider meets? I mean they do run into all the weird ones.
I dunno about douchebaggery, but I do think it was low for Barry to blame Wally for what is essentially EVERYONE'S mistake. (IE the Stone getting tossed in.)
ALSO I think this explains how Savitar before he was free was faster than Barry. Because He's stuck in there, he's not actually moving faster so much as using the Speed Force to be in places. So...in that respect I was right. It was the Speed Force, not Savitar.
I feel bad for Wally, but again it was all setup by the fact NO ONE thought to ask "Why can't Savitar manifest in this reality?!" You know it might have been important...
Hama,
Exactly. The reason wasn't he was faster overall, just because he was IN and trapped by the Speed Force. So his only means of moment were through it.
Feral,
Probably again because practical Savitar was now in this reality instead of in the Speed Force.
Yeah I liked that Savitar was evidently slower than Barry, or at least as fast as him, now that he's out.
YEah!!
Just shooting from the hip here, but I think that was my favorite speed fight of the series. Traditionally the big bad just smacks Barry around until he can somehow beat him in a race... this had some serious hits going back and forth and I REALLY thought we were going to get the reveal this time. There were a couple times that Barry had control and was going for that mask/helmet.
Very fun fight when the sides are somewhat even.
RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16
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I didn't have an issue with Barry holding his own against Savitar at all. With the time travel stuff we know, it seems that the Savitar who just escaped was earlier in his personal timeline than the one who earlier in the season kicked Barry's ass. The escaped Savitar will get better, then go back in time to fight a less competent Barry earlier in Season 3.
Joel,
I'm not sure that's how it will work. I still think Savitar isn't faster than Barry. It's just the he used the Speed Force for his own personal teleporter. Barry held his own because Savitar isn't a god of speed, in any time line.
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RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16
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Joel,
I'm not sure that's how it will work. I still think Savitar isn't faster than Barry. It's just the he used the Speed Force for his own personal teleporter. Barry held his own because Savitar isn't a god of speed, in any time line.
Could be, but it could be both. If Savitar in past episodes had learned how to tap into the speed force to pop in and out, but Savitar who just a second ago escaped from the spped force and hadn't learned how to use it to pop around from this last episode didn't have that trick, then future Savitar (who beat Barry easily) just has a few tricks up his sleeve he hasn't yet learned.
As for who Savitar is, what if it's Ronnie? He go sucked up into a wormhole thing at the end of season 1 and we haven't seen him yet (though I thought I caught a glimpse of him in the preview for next week). Eddie doesn't make sense to me, since I'd think he'd never stoop to killing Iris, but maybe seeing her with Barry did the trick.
Joel,
I think with regards to "tricks" I'm not convinced there many more tricks to the Speed Force. Unless they do some REALLY wonky ones. (Like ESP or Speed Mind powers.) They've pretty much covered the classics.
As for who Savitar is, I don't think it's Ronnie. I think the Ronnie, Eddie and Snart we saw are aspects of the Speed Force. Perhaps even darker elements of it. I mean not all speedsters are good, right?
But to your point about who Savitar is, I think we might not find out until maybe next season or season 5. But we'll see.
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I think that Ronnie and Eddie in the previews are just other manifestations of the Speed Force, much like it used Joe to communicate with Barry last season.
Van, That's my take on it too, though I think Eddie and Snart are more of the "dark side" of the Speed Force.
I hope they don't.
Without Firestar, Ronnie wasn't that interesting of a character... and if the only thing his return would do is drive Caitlin off the deep end AGAIN... then I'd rather he just stay gone.
Phantom,
But supposedly she's going off the deep end anyway...so maybe?
I do agree it's unlikely.
Phantom,
But supposedly she's going off the deep end anyway...so maybe?
I do agree it's unlikely.
Killer Frost has to come back at some point.
Drah,
Yeah it's pretty much now a given considering Savitar has brought about his prophecy.
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That was....intriguing.
Go Jay! You kick ass!
Jesse may have been acting a bit headstrong and reckless, much like Wally, but she also played it smarter than he would have. She made sure to be in contact with HQ, asked for advice on fighting him, and actually took said advice.
Which (aforementioned advice from HR) seems to indicate that Savitron is indeed a man in a suit. Perhaps the suit augments his speed abilities? Or gives them to him? I'm now wondering - at some point in a future season (please, not the next one), we'll see the future Savitar constructing this armor.
I did find it intertesting the way Jesse threw lightening at him and he threw it back at her supercharged. So far, both Barry and Jesse have managed to hurt Savitron.
One thing that's bugging me.....At some future point, Savitron will have an origin of getting his super speed and being trapped in the speed force by Barry; a prison he "constructed", according to the Speed Force avatars. However, those avatars also let it be known the main part of the "prison" is reliving your worst moment over and over, stuck in a time loop. If that is the case, then how did Savitron manage to influence multiple universes (even Jay knew about him) over what appears to be centuries? Had he been stuck in there so long that he was able to begin exerting influence? Was it the Philosopher's Stone? If so, what does that say about the stone's origin? Is it tied to the speed force?
Another thought on Savitron - this time on his identity. I'm wondering if they're going to make it Eddie Thawne. His body was lost to a speed-generated worm whole. What if the Speed Force protected him the way it did Eobard? In the previous week's episode, while they were channeling Savitron into Julian, he mentioned how everyone thought Eobard was his greatest enemy, when actually it was himself. In this episode, the Speed Force avatar highlights how Barry now was set to have the life that should have been Eddie's. That might piss Eddie off enough to turn to the dark side.
Next week looks to be the musical episode. Although I'm typically not a fan of musicals, I'm actually looking forward to this, since (a)it'll be a nice change of pace, and (b)it will be taking advantage of the natural singing talents (and maybe not so natural) of various cast members. If nothing else, I can at least appreciate the singing talents of others.
And, finally, the week after that, according to IMDB the title of the episode is....Abra Kadabra! WOOT! Another one of my favorite Flash villains. Let's hope they do him justice.
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RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16
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I'm hoping that they remember that Barry is a forensic scientist and DNA test the Savitar blood on the spike that Jessie stabbed him with and recovered. It might not have a match they can find, but might tell them something more about who Savitar is.
That was....intriguing.
** spoiler omitted **...
It's weird how many of the folks on these shows have musical backgrounds of some sort or another. The other week I was watching the pre movie adds (I think in front of Get Out) and they had an add for one of those special movie theater events where they play musicals and opera. I was all HEY ITS WINN! when I saw he has/had the lead part in Newsies.
One thing I find humorous about this show... is just how it plays to the tropes. In all these shows you have the hero wondering if his heroics hurts the people he cares about... and well?? YEah, with Barry it really does!
Barry created Flashpoint... messed with everyone's lives. His adventures have gotten multiple people dead... Ok...
Yeah, there can be the traditional 'but what if he wasn't there to save them...' bit. However, Not only is Barry really everyone's worst enemy...
Barry is BARRY's worst enemy. Thawne Hated future Barry enough to screw with his whole life... Savitar is out for revenge after future Barry did whatever it is he does... Future Barry just seems out to screw with Past Barry!!!
Actually, That may be a fun season. I kind of want to see a future Barry come back as a villain to mess with the present. That could be a lot of fun.
Greenie,
My guess is she thinks her dad can handle it. SMH...
Regarding Savitar and his armor; I think it's more of a symbiosis. It's not necessarily granting him Speed Force but it's what keeping him alive.
I think more likely because he uses the Speed Force, Savitar ends up ageing at an accelerated rate. That or the stress on his body necessitates him needing the armor.
The armor itself is future tech no question, but I also think it might be from another dimension.
Also regarding Savitar being around, let us remember the Speed Force is a MULTI-dimension force. Meaning it can reach all across space-time. So while he was stuck there, (in what presumes to be his worse day. or what ever counts as hell for Savitar) he can still use the stone (which I think has ties to the Speed Force and maybe magic) to access other dimensions.
That's at least what I got. I could be wrong. As for who Savitar is...I have no fing clue. But I doubt it's Eddie or anyone we currently know.
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also, who's protecting Earth-2? Jessie decided to go to Earth-3 since it needs someone to watch over it while Jay is gone. Who's covering Earth-2
Yeah, that kind of bugged me when she went on her whole 'I'm the REAL Flash of my earth! I've been fighting all the monsters and villains by myself!' and my first thought was, 'till you left for a boy...'