shield master enhancements

[Human Fighter]

By RAW I would like help figuring out exactly what shield master does with enhancements.

What if I have bashing on the shield? Do I get 1 for the base shield bonus to ac enhancement, then the bashing, then the bashing that's giving a +1 weapon enhancement?

What if there is a pre existing weapon enhancement? Without shield master and I have bashing, does my +1 shield weapon become a +2 from bashing? +4 if shield master exists for the +1 weapon, +1 shield, bashing, then the +1 bashing gives?

[KainPen]

Like bonus do not stack. that about as raw as it gets. all the ability spell out that they grant enhancement bonus. +1 enhancement bonus does not stack with +1 enhancement bonus. So it never become +2.

Same for shield master if you have +4 defense Enhancement bonus. It also functions as +4 weapon enhancement bonus from the feat this is what breaks and make the feat over powered. You get a +x weapon for free. since this is greater than the +1 from bashing it overlaps. You get the +4.

The only thing that I think is even questionable is enchanting the shield to have other weapon properties. with bashing since it not actual a +1 weapon, it is just granted a +1 enhancement bonus. Can you actually make a bashing shield flaming if you never pay for the magic weapon +1 portion of the item?

Shield is a very powerful item with in the current raw and in core rule book alone. It is the one of few item in the game that can have total of +20 bonuses, +10 weapon bonuses and +10 armor bonuses.

[Human Fighter]

You can't use bashing to bypass the base necessities to further enhance your weapon, because it only matters when you are using the shield to bash.

[Human Fighter]

Shield master
"Benefits
You do not suffer any penalties on attack rolls made with a shield while you are wielding another weapon. Add your shield's enhancement bonus to attacks and damage rolls made with the shield as if it was a weapon enhancement bonus."

It says to add. Doesn't that imply it stacks?

[Human Fighter]

Acid resistance isn't an "shield enhancement" bonus for purposes of applying it to a shield and to add to the total of shield master? It's an "shield ability bonus"?

[BaconBastard]

Like bonuses don't stack, and the feat adds the shields enhancement as a weapon enhancement, so it would overlap a weapon enhancement on the shield. You're still able to get crazy with it though.

Your +5 bashing heavy shield with +1 flaming frost shock shield spikes makes you attack for 2d6+5+str +1d6 cold + 1d6 fire +1d6 electricity at the low price of 68k gp where a greatsword would need to cost 128k gp to pull that off.

[BaconBastard]

Also speed is another good one to add to the spikes. The feat is intended (maybe not intended, but it allows) for you to get a +5 weapon at half price and then add weapon abilities to it super cheap, I don't believe that they wanted weapon and shield enhancement bonuses to stack, though a +10 enhancement bonus is probably less game breaking and insane than +5 with +9 worth of abilities.

[Imbicatus]

BaconBastard wrote:

Like bonuses don't stack, and the feat adds the shields enhancement as a weapon enhancement, so it would overlap a weapon enhancement on the shield. You're still able to get crazy with it though.

Your +5 bashing heavy shield with +1 flaming frost shock shield spikes makes you attack for 2d6+5+str +1d6 cold + 1d6 fire +1d6 electricity at the low price of 68k gp where a greatsword would need to cost 128k gp to pull that off.

Indeed. Not to mention that you are also getting +7 to AC form the the shield while attacking thanks to improved shield bash, and a free Bull Rush on every hit thanks to Shield Slam.

[Landrich Olstead]

Easy answer.

Enhancement bonuses never stack. Plain and simple. If you have a +1 armor enchant and a +1 Weapon enchant on your shield, they overlap and the shield counts as a +1 weapon. The only bonus the +1 weapon enchant gives is the ability to now add other enchantments such as fiery, shocking, holy, etc.

[Human Fighter]

What I'm getting is that the normal +1/+5 on a shield is a "shield enhancement bonus" and other things won't count they're "ability bonus", correct?

When it converts to a weapon, it is the base +1/+5 that is added, but it's layered over like any other weapon enhancement. So bashing layers with an actual weapon enhancement, and the +1 or higher also layers with the bashing and weapon enhancements.

[Chris Lambertz]

Removed a post and reply. f you see something problematic, flag and move on. Thanks!

[Human Fighter]

Merci

Shield abilities bonus' different from shield enhancement bonus' and don't count for enhancement bonus??

[KainPen]

yes only +1 thru +5 are the actual enhancement bonus. +6 if GM made custom artifact shield like the axe of dwarf lords. Bashing is an ability that grants +1 weapon enhancement while preforming shield bash. animated is another armor based one that is an ability but adjust cost of item based on +2 modifier it does not actual increase the enhancement bonus but does count aganist the +10 max limit on the defensive side of the shield. Here something interesting I just realized you could use a Defiant shield to increase the mod above the normal 1 thru 5 to 6 or 7. Thus allowing you to go through epic dr against a particular sub type of creature with shield master feat. Much like bane weapon would. Energy resistance acid is a flat gp cost and does not even count toward the max +10 limit on shield defense. The only reason it is on the tables under a + ability to show it equivalent power or value for when rolling it in random treasure.

You could very well make a +5, Heavy fortification shield with acid/fire/cold resistance/hosteling shield.

I am curious now how mythic epic dr rules would work with shield master and +1 flaming shield/ +5 shield.

[Human Fighter]

I appreciate helping me understand what's up.

Cool ideas are appreciated if anyone wants to give any.