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4 people marked this as FAQ candidate.
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In a recent thread, a few questions were asked about this feat with a bow...
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qysa?Weapon-Versatility-feat-and-Ranged-Weapon s
How does it interact with other feats and abilities that apply specifically to damage type?
a) Swashbuckler's Weapon Finesse + other Swashy goodness. If you make your Rapier deal slashing damage, is it still affected by SWF
b) Swashbuckler Weapon Finesse and other weapons... if you make your Unarmed Strike/Katana/whatever deal Piercing damage, is it now affected by SWF?
c) If you make a keen weapon deal bludgeoning damage, does it still have expanded threat range?
d) If you make an Alchemical Arrow (Alchemy Manual) deal bludgeoning or slashing damage, do you still benefit from their effects?
I'd say...
A) still affected.
B) doesn't change weapon type. The feat only allows you to change the damage. So no.
C) Yep. Weapon type didn't change.
D) Feat only changes damage type, so effects should still be in place.
The reason this is coming up is that we have had a number of people assert that it is absolutely clear that "weapon type" and "type of damage being dealt" are interchangeable concepts. So, for instance, if you decide to do piercing damage with a dagger, they argue that it would no longer be able to proc the vorpal enchant, because that works only on slashing weapons.
I am currently unsure what the intent of the rules is. There's one footnote on one table that seems to suggest that a weapon's "type" is a function of the damage it is doing right now, and there's other things which suggest that a weapon's type is an inherent property of the weapon itself independent from damage dealt.
How either ruling affects things like enchants that are only available for some weapon types is not obvious.
seebs wrote: The reason this is coming up is that we have had a number of people assert that it is absolutely clear that "weapon type" and "type of damage being dealt" are interchangeable concepts. So, for instance, if you decide to do piercing damage with a dagger, they argue that it would no longer be able to proc the vorpal enchant, because that works only on slashing weapons.
I am currently unsure what the intent of the rules is. There's one footnote on one table that seems to suggest that a weapon's "type" is a function of the damage it is doing right now, and there's other things which suggest that a weapon's type is an inherent property of the weapon itself independent from damage dealt.
How either ruling affects things like enchants that are only available for some weapon types is not obvious.
I agree, I'm also confused. When I first read the Swashbuckler, brain glossed over 'piercing weapon' and translated it to 'piercing damage.' I'm pretty sure I had also found a FAQ or dev post about a keen weapon that does bludgeoning damage looses the keen, but can't find it again.
On a slight derail, is there any way to turn an unarmed strike into a piercing weapon to work with Swashbuckler class abilities??
I personally run it as the weapon is an x-type weapon if it does that damage. So if it is a P/S, then it is piercing when you use it for piercing damage and slashing when used for slashing. I also run it as the weapon can use things like vorpal as long as the weapon can still do slashing damage.
@reyyvin:I believe snake style turns your unarmed strikes into piercing weapons. Could be wrong though.
Get a natural attack? Bites are B/S/P. :)
The only things we have in the rules that appear to be concrete are:
1. A footnote on the weapon table in the Core book, but not in Ultimate Equipment, asserting that:
PRD table footnote wrote: A weapon with two types is both types if the entry specifies “and,” or either type (wielder's choice) if the entry specifies “or.” 2. The Quilted Cloth armor rule listing "thrown daggers, and other small ranged piercing weapons".
The first seems to indicate that a weapon is of the type of the damage it is dealing, and the second strongly suggests that a thrown dagger is always a piercing weapon, even though we know it can deal slashing damage instead.
EvilPaladin wrote: I personally run it as the weapon is an x-type weapon if it does that damage. So if it is a P/S, then it is piercing when you use it for piercing damage and slashing when used for slashing. I also run it as the weapon can use things like vorpal as long as the weapon can still do slashing damage.
@reyyvin:I believe snake style turns your unarmed strikes into piercing weapons. Could be wrong though.
That is what I originally thought too; I took a couple levels in monk for my Swashbuckler and took Snake Style (Unarmed Strike does piercing damage). Whether consciously or not, I equated "piercing damage" to equal "piercing weapon."
I'm not completely sure that is correct now.
Between the 2 feats, I'm sure I can either do P/S/B with my rapier OR piercing with my unarmed, while benefiting from Swashbuckler abilities, but not both... and I'm not completely sure which one would work.
RAW, I'm leaning towards the Versatile Weapon over the Snake Stance (yay, retraining), but if the piercing damage = piercing weapon interpretation holds, I can have my cake and stab it too.
To throw a wrench in all of this; The battle poi have a type of fire.
I'd be fine with weapons gaining the damage type while dealing another damage but I can't see enchantments not working with other damage types.
I am inclined to say that if you have taken steps to arrange for a weapon to deal piercing damage, it ought to at least be able to count as a "piercing weapon".
I would be slightly more inclined to count Snake Stance than Versatile Weapon, myself, because versatile weapon sounds like a change in how you're using a weapon whose innate type has not changed, but Snake Stance sounds like learning to make Piercing Fists or something.
Well, combine Weapon Versatility, with the Transformative enchantment, and you can have a Vorpal anything.
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