Whos_That
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My gm asked me to ask the forums, bonuses from items do not stack if they are the same type or from the same source I.e. an item that gives you 4 untyped dex from "cats grace" won't stack with itself, same with "enhancement" bonuses. This item gives you +2d6 channel dice. There is no "type" nor is there even a spell required, just need to be 10th level cleric to make. Now my question, if I took this headband, and made bracers of it, then do those two stack to +4d6? My gm and I can see both sides. We want to ask your opinion!
| Hendelbolaf |
If you want an opinion then I would say, no, they should not stack. Just because you take an item and change the location does not mean that it is a different item in my opinion.
I would say from a rules perspective that they are un-typed bonus but from the same source.
| ThunderMan |
Put it in an ioun stone its untyped and will stack.
Should technically stack with how whos_that had it.
And cats grace gives you an enhancement bonus, that doesn't stack.
Often got into debates with a friend over the "permanent" item based increases vs. the temporary spell increases. Those stack. Two castings of the same spell wouldn't.
| Archaeik |
Since you specifically asked about untyped bonuses...
Bonuses without a type always stack, unless they are from the same source.
If you made a custom item that gave an untyped dex bonus, it would likely stack with any enhancement bonus you have.(Particular rules sticklers would indicate that such an item couldn't stack with an item based off of the same component spell for creation though, regardless of the actual bonus type granted by the different items.)
Such a bonus would also stack with another custom untyped Dex bonus, provided it was a different spell.To the phylactery, it does indeed appear to be untyped, but I personally would require a different source of item creation to gain the benefit of more than 1. It's pretty clear the bonus is not meant to be stacked at every opportunity.
@ThunderMan Putting the enchantment in an ioun stone does not fundamentally change that the benefit is an identical item, doesn't matter that it's slotless.
MrNormal
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My first impression on whether an original item stacks with the same thing in a different slot is; NOOOOOOOO, but when I sit down to rationalize my original impulse I can't help but agree with myself.
First: It's the same item, just in a different slot. Even if it's technically "untyped", the two bonuses are coming from the same source, just on a different place on your character.
Secondly: Changing an item like that out of a head slot increases its value MASSIVELY! Now not only can a cleric get a positive energy boost, he/she can wear +wis headbands. You're overpowering ur PC if u let that happen IMO.
Opening the option to change slots opens the worst case scenario; "Lets get philactory of positive channeling in ALL the slots" (insert meme.jpg here). Unbalancing the game and thinning the line ever further between cakewalk and TPK.
Easy answer; DM gives the bonus a type: Item, Divine whatever. Ultimately it's DM discretion; do you want your players that powerful? Is your party hurtin for healz? I always play with the Golden Rule in mind; It's about having fun! Playtest it for a bit, the DM can have it melt after 50 uses if it's overpowered, but if he/she's cool with it; go hard or go home.
| Hendelbolaf |
If that is the case, then an extra 2d6 will not be of much use in my experience. I would load up on scrolls of Mass Heal if that is the level that you are playing. There is a much better bang for you buck going that way than simply channeling energy.
I still say that an item in a different slot(Ioun Stone or otherwise) is still the same source and should not stack. Your DM will need to be the final arbiter of this in his game.
| Rylar |
I'd rather create a new item that gave a +4 channel dice. It would make more sense to me. The +2 on costs 11k, doubling something in power increases cost by 4x. So, I could cost a +4d6 channel headband at 44k.
An extra 2d6 healing on your channel will be as helpful as you make it. Ignore those who tell you that you can only play the game their way.
| Blakmane |
Honestly, I wouldn't bother channeling as a means of HP healing at high levels. Get heal/mass heal instead as it is much more effective. and extra 2d6 is only 7 HP more healing on average: have a look at your allies' health and make a judgement on whether you think 7 HP more per round is really going to help, especially compared to a 160 HP heal.
An extra 2d6 healing on your channel will be as helpful as you make it. Ignore those who tell you that you can only play the game their way.
This is an extremely loaded statement. The OP has explicitly stated this is a high-powered, optimised game and his DM isn't pulling punches. He doesn't have to optimise, but he'll probably have less fun if he isn't being useful in such a game. However, i'm also sure he is more than capable of arbitrating his own decisions without either of our 'guidance'.
| Hendelbolaf |
Ignore those who tell you that you can only play the game their way.
I never said he can only play the game "my way" and I never suggested that he even should play it "my way." I said that my experience was that a mere 2d6 has a lot less effect at higher levels than 170hp or more of healing to everyone in the party. I know this is the rules forum but I gave my opinion on the rule and was just giving advice on a different direction he might find more effective and cheaper to boot.
| Rylar |
At level 16 there are better large heals, but also the group should be good at taking hits and spreading around damage. Channel is great for topping off when damage is spread around and usually doesn't waste your entire turn to do so. If you think of the item as fast healing 7 for your entire party, it's pretty viable. (Also depending on some feats/abilities it could be more than 7 average health.)
That being said, there was nothing in this post about if he should be looking for an item like this or not. He asked if the item was possible by most people's interpretation. Saying the equivalent of "It doesn't matter because it's a bad idea anyway." doesn't help answer the question.
If I come off hostile it's not my intention.