Well I just watched last nights game of thrones episode and I feel absolutely inspired to plagiarize. In my game, my pc's have capture Tsuto and Orik, and are going to have a trial in Sandpoint. I think now, that during the proceedings i'd like for Tsuto, who is obviously guilty, to demand a trial by combat.
The judge is Justice Ironbriar, and honestly, the judge wants him to die because he may actually know something linking him and the goings ons. However he is a Justice and this is a 'public' trial with the jury being comprised of 1 representative from each of Sandpoint's noble families, including Ameiko Kaijitsu, Mayor Deverin, Ethram Valdemar and Titus Scarnetti.
So basically I'm curious if Tsuto can do this, he is a noble technically isn't he? Even if he is a bastard, doesn't he have that right? I know magnimars legal code is confusing or vague unlike Korvosa's, but magnimar was founded on ideals of freedom from chelish laws. So I imagine trial by combat in the face and judgement of the gods should be something applicable to the law.
Your thoughts on this?
Secondly, Orik is also on trial, however he isn't a noble but i'm curious if Tsuto could call him as his champion? It would seem Orik couldn't be called because he is also on trial, however I could see them allowing it because his judgement could be death anyway.
Tell me what you think!
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Can Justice Ironbriar do this? Sure! There really isn't anything codified into what we would consider a body of law in Magnimar, which gives the DM free reign to say that X is the correct and proper answer to this legal question under this particular Justice, while Y is the more correct answer under a different Justice, while Z is the answer a third might come up with. Anyone with a legal mindset should get a headache trying to come to terms with the fluidity of the Magnimaran legal system.
In short, if your story would be improved by allowing for Tsuto to ask for a trial by combat, then absolutely, do it. As for Orik, I suspect he wouldn't agree to stick his neck out for Tsuto willingly. If the Justice sweetens the pot and gives Orik his freedom as well (or, at least, a substantially reduced sentence), then he'd probably go for that, but he's not really interested in doing anything to save Tsuto's life. After all, he's thought about killing Tsuto just so he could have a chance at Lyrie.
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Your thoughts on this?
Who's he going to fight? What happens if he wins? Does he go free? If he goes free, who's he going to try and murder next? Or will he just come back with a bigger goblin raid next time? I think these are all fair questions the people of Sandpoint would be asking when the idea of "trial by combat" gets mentioned.
I really hate to poo-poo your idea, but I think "trial by combat" raises enough flags that it doesn't make much sense that the people of Sandpoint would be in favor of it.
Personally, I think it's more likely that Ironbriar would throw Tsuto in prison in Magnimar and just have him whacked before he can talk. More efficient, less drama.
-Skeld
Hm, yes I suppose it wouldn't make much sense given the context, for Tsuto to call Orik as his champion. Also for his crimes his punishment is pretty much either death or life in the hells. If he actually won.. I guess he would be acquitted of the charges and set free. As to who would fight him? Wel his sister might, or one of the pcs might.
ill have to think more about this.
Trial by combat is typically part of the social order, associated with extremely martial societies, warrior codes and divine sponsorship (god would never let evil win, so if you win, you must be good!)
Even if you postulate that such structures exist in Varisia and Magnimar, I'm not sure Tsuto has the right to claim them. He's not part of any martial order and his bloodline seems dubious. It's not clear to me exactly what his mother's background was - he's clearly not Lonjitsu's child.
Now depending on the level of anger and bloodlust in Sandpoint, I could see the people clamoring for the blood of both men. Perhaps Ironbriar in an effort to diffuse rising sentiment against "those fools in Magnimar who let this happen" (remember Nualia received sponsorship from someone in the city and recruited Tsuto, Lyrie and Orik there as well) sentences Orik and Tsuto to fight each other to the death with the winner getting sent to the gladiatorial arena in Serpent's Run in Magnimar.
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Hm, yes I suppose it wouldn't make much sense given the context, for Tsuto to call Orik as his champion. Also for his crimes his punishment is pretty much either death or life in the hells. If he actually won.. I guess he would be acquitted of the charges and set free. As to who would fight him? Wel his sister might, or one of the pcs might.
ill have to think more about this.
Yes, this is an idea that you really have to think all the way out before trying it.
In my mind, the people of Sandpoint are very pragmatic, while the idea of "trial by combat" is steeped in ritual and ceremony. It doesn't seem to me to be the way they would handle a known murderer and leader of a goblin invasion/uprising.
It might be more fun to have him sent to Magnimar, tried and convicted publicly by Ironbriar, who then let allows him to "escape" to accost the heroes once they start sniffing around the Skinsaw cult.
-Skeld
Latrecis, that is a awesome idea. I was struggling with how to get this to happen without my pcs raging over how that isn't a law or something. but with Magnimars legal code being shrouded in mystery I guess its up to the Justices what your punishment really is. Life as a gladiator is basically a death sentence. As I understand it Magnimar, doesn't allow fights to the death in said arena, or ad least doesn't allow them very often. I'd have to re read the text for the arena you are mentioning but i thought that's how it was.
Actually, now that I'm thinking about it more. If Tsuto called for a champion, Orik is probably the only person who would stand for him. Orik hates Tsutu but he doesn't really want to die, or to be sent to the Hells. He feels he got jibbed into this situation, and after explaining his situation to the pc's they are pretty much unsympathetic to his blight, so really his only way out is Trial by combat as someones Champion.
As he isn't a noble at all, I cant see him getting a chance to fight for his own life. So.. maybe he would stand as Tsutos champion if it meant he could get a lesser sentence. Perhaps life in the Company of the Black Arrow, or in the arena. Also Oriks past crimes will come out during the trial and a witness may even be called; I was thinking the Tiefling he as in love with, or maybe someone from the alchemists family in riddleport.
So my players surprised me with some of their ideas tonight. First off they have squashed my mob attack on Orik and Tstuto idea by bribing the Scarni to not only call off those they have been egging on, but hiring some Magnimar mercenary's to reinforce the trials security. They also have been regularly checking in with the prisoners to make sure they are not dead and are In fact secure. Between all of this, their good standing in the town and various diplomacy checks have calmed the town down and convinced people that the good of the towns future is better than simply blood.
Now I already know that Ironbriar wants Tsuto dead, because he 'might' reveal something that could lead to the brotherhood or himself. However he could also use him, to terrorize the pcs if freed.. nah. Its fairly likely they will decide that Tsuto deserves death and will be executed, by the vibe I'm getting from the group. The pcs are feeling out the nobles attending as jury and the witch in the group has convinced two of them to ad least spare Oriks life, if not his jail sentence. They all pretty much think Tsuto should die.
However, they are actually speaking out for orik a lot more than i thought they would and I'm feeling the Blackarrow life sentence is far more likely now. However justice Ironbriar has arrive and has informed them that his criminal record in riddle port requires a secondary trial in Magnimar and then possibly being sent to Riddleport for prison time.
I just really don't see a way out of this for him other than life in the Blackarrows...
however I kinda want to have an assassination attempt on Tsuto, but i'm unsure who to have do it. A local towns person? one of Alderns Ghouls.. nah. hm... I know Ironbriar could 'call in' a favor for a shape-shifting assassin.. but I dunno!
Anyway, as far as the -Trial by Combat- goes I think Tsuto might call for it, the more I think about it, the more it makes sense, in a way. Given that the months are named after the gods, good or bad, the fact that there are a ton of churches in magnimar, official or otherwise, I think that the culture for such a thing is present. Tsuto could demand a trial by combat because of his noble blood, despite being a bastard to Longjitsu, his mother was noble. Ironbriar wants him to die, so why wouldn't he let him fight someone who he thinks can obviously defeat him?
One of my pcs is romantically interested in Ameiko and I think he would do it.
I'm using choppers isle to slowly take them into the Skinshaw murders, i'm going to have a group of ghouls, dressed as the Sandpoint killer Stoot, terrorize the town at night for 3 days until the trial starts. This will be the 'hitch' that happens before the trial and the pcs need to stop the threat of these murders before the trial starts. These ghouls can easily rack up a body count from greedy people in Sandpoint.
Trial by combat is something I have within (eg) the Hellknight orders, to settle internal disputes. While it was part of medieval English law, and I can see it in eg Taldor, but I don't think it fits with Magnimar or Sandpoint at all.