So I have this crazy idea of a Halfling charging into combat on a pony, jumping from the back of his mount, grappling a very confused and unsuspecting enemy, and tying them up all in one round...all by 3rd level.
LN Halfling MoMS 1/Emissary Cavalier 2/MoMS 9
Order of the Penitent
Racial Substitution - Outrider (+2 Ride)
FCB - Monk
STR 10 DEX 18 CON 14 INT 9 WIS 14 CHA 7
Traits: Adopted (Bred for War), Born Rider
1st: MoMS 1 - IUS (bonus), Imp Grapple (bonus), Agile Maneuvers
2nd: MoMS 1/EmCa 1 - Mounted Combat 1, Coordinated Maneuvers (Tactician- Standard Action)
3rd: MoMS 1/EmCa 2 - Boon Companion, Expert Captor (Order)
INTENT: I hope to combine the Monk of Many Styles and the Cavalier's Order of the Penitent to flurry grapple - one check to grapple, and a second to Tie Up via Expert Captor - thus rendering the opponent helpless in one round. The mount is there to get the Halfling into combat FAST- with 50ft movement on the charge. With a DC 20 (+13 at 3rd level) to quickly mount/dismount to get to the next enemy. The mount will focus on movement related feats.
Please tare the build apart if it is wrong. Oh ya, this is for PFS, so be as strict with your rules lawyering as possible :)
Thanks in advance!
I just remembered that the monk gets fast movement. Duh!
That makes the mount practically obsolete. My goal with the build is to quickly subdue enemies - not do massive amounts of damage. So, what other feats would get this Halfling safely and quickly to his next target?
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Bruno welcome new grappler into PFS brotherhood! Bruno would hug you but then we would try to hug each other to death! Bruno give you friendly nod instead!
Bruno see several issues.
First, you can not full attack at the end of a mounted charge. ("Essentially, you have to wait until the mount gets to your enemy before attacking, so you can't make a full attack.") So, you could not use flurry of maneuvers.
Secondly, it is still a standard action grapple check to use Expert Captor: you can Flurry of Maneuvers for one grapple or do a standard action grapple in round one, but you do not have spare actions to tie up until round two.
ETA:
Also, Bruno would like to see how a halfling is taller than 6' to qualify for Bred for War. Adopted lets you choose race trait from adoptive parents, but it does not waive any other restrictions.
Bruno - many of your points are good ones. Moving into position is an issue.
According to the ride skill - moving a horse into combat is "no action" - shouldn't this take the horse's move action?
Guide with Knees: You can guide your mount with your knees so you can use both hands in combat. Make your Ride check at the start of your turn. If you fail, you can use only one hand this round because you need to use the other to control your mount. This does not take an action.
Fight with a Combat-Trained Mount: If you direct your war-trained mount to attack in battle, you can still make your own attack or attacks normally. This usage is a free action.
And, Expert Captor does not mention that it is a standard action. So, it should work with the MM's grapple flurry.
Expert Captor (Ex)
At 2nd level, as long as he has rope, the cavalier can tie up a grappled opponent, even if the opponent is not pinned, otherwise restrained, or unconscious, and he does not take the usual –10 penalty on his combat maneuver check to do so. When determining the DC to escape bonds secured by the cavalier, the cavalier's Combat Maneuver Bonus increases by 1/2 his cavalier level.
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Yes, using the Ride Skill to guide your mount is a free action, however the time lost waiting for it to move costs you action economy.
From Mounted Combat Rules
"When you attack a creature smaller than your mount that is on foot, you get the +1 bonus on melee attacks for being on higher ground. If your mount moves more than 5 feet, you can only make a single melee attack. Essentially, you have to wait until the mount gets to your enemy before attacking, so you can't make a full attack. Even at your mount's full speed, you don't take any penalty on melee attacks while mounted."
"At 2nd level, as long as he has rope, the cavalier can tie up a grappled opponent, even if the opponent is not pinned, otherwise restrained, or unconscious, and he does not take the usual –10 penalty on his combat maneuver check to do so."
Oh ya, this is for PFS, so be as strict with your rules lawyering as possible
1) You must make a combat maneuver check. Nothing in the description bypasses the normal restrictions of the relevant combat maneuver check (in this case: grapple). You must expend a standard action Grapple check to tie up an opponent you are grappling. The ability simply lets you improve your action economy in combat to go Grapple-then-Tie-Up-without- penalty versus the normal Grapple-then-Tie-Up-with-penalty or the longer Grapple-then-Pin-then-Tie-Up-without-penalty.
2) Some GMs require rope be actually retrieved and in hand (move action) to tie up. Other GMs will be fine as long as you have rope somewhere on your character as they feel tying up includes retrieving the rope from your inventory. Table Variation Guideline: Chat with your GM before the game.
If your mount moves yoi cannot full attack. If you want to charge on a mount both of yiu are charging. There was recent clarification on this.
I would actually try to get the pony to grapple so the halfling can tie up no issues. If you can use retraining on Animal Companions you can get Improved Unarmed Strike and Improved Grapple at 4th when the pony's intelligence hits 3, if not it takes your feats at 5th and 8th.
I would actually try to get the pony to grapple so the halfling can tie up no issues. If you can use retraining on Animal Companions you can get Improved Unarmed Strike and Improved Grapple at 4th when the pony's intelligence hits 3, if not it takes your feats at 5th and 8th.
This was my first idea actually. A human cavalier whose camel (higher STR than a horse, actually) grappled while the rider followed up with Expert Captor. I went with the Emissary archetype to get all of the non-damaging mounted feats for free.
Human Emissary Cavalier
Eye for Talent
Mount - Camel (+2 Int)
STR 18, DEX 14, CON 12, INT 10 WIS 12, CHA 7
Traits: Rough and Ready (rope), Bred for War
Feats:
1st - IUS, Mounted Combat (bonus)
3rd - Imp Grapple
Camel Feats:
2HD: IUS
3HD: Imp Grapple
Basically, I worked it out where each turn-
Camel Move: Get to Enemy
Camel Standard: Grapple
Cavalier Standard: Expert Captor
Overall, this would be a stronger build w/ a higher grapple CMB than the Halfling. However, medium mounted characters are not favored in PFS :(
if a rider or mount enters a grapple with an enemy, is the rider/mount that's not grappling the enemy suffer from the grappled condition?
If you have Animal Archive, there is a feat Narrow Frame that makes large critters only take up 2 squares effectively. It could solve the problem.
True. Narrow Frame would solve the space issue.
However, how long should I wait for mount and rider to both have Imp Grapple?
Without Imp Grapple, the camel would have only a +7 at level 3 - is this reliable enough for a grapple build?