Archer Witch advice / help


Advice


I have been invited to play in a local game and I was unable to decide if I wanted to play a cleric, an archer or a wizard..... so, I decided to build an archer/caster. I have landed on witch as of right now. The party consists of a tanky fighter, a druid, a rogue and a barbarian. I have a basic idea but I am very open to suggestions and variations from what I have so far.

Elf/ Hedge Witch/ Patron: Strength

1 Witch 1 Hex: healing // Point Blank Shot
2 Fighter 1 // Precise Shot
3 witch 2 Hex:flight // Rapid Shot
4 witch 3
5 witch 4 Hex: Hedge Witch // Arcane Strike
6 witch 5
7 witch 6 Hex: Tounges // Deadly Aim
8 Eldritch Knight(ek) 1 //bonus feat: weapon focus bow
9 ek 2 //many shot
10 witch 7
11 witch 8 Hex: Hedge Witch //reach spell
patron spell: divine power
12 ek 3
13 ek4 // weapon spec bow
14 ek5 // bonus feat: point blank master

That is as far as I have gotten at this point. Any thoughts?


Why a witch? The spell list is poorly suited to buffing your attacks and the hexes are largely unrelated to archery. Sure, cloak of winds is a nice spell, but you don't have to be a witch to get it.

Edit: I misremembered. Witches don't get cloak of winds ... so you don't get nice defensive spells either. You're missing out on this, mirror image, divine power is an age away and you don't get haste or similar beforehand. I don;t see the reason for this combination of role and classes.

Contributor

Some questions:
— Any reason you're plugging Eldritch Knight instead of Arcane Archer? Generally speaking, the benefits of arcane archer outweigh stacking your fighter level via Eldritch Knight levels.

— I'm not sure why you're trying to build towards here. It looks like you're trying to essentially be a bard: decent at fighting, some debuff spells and healing. Overall, its not a bad build. In fact, I sort of like it (though I'd like it better with Arcane Archer). What hexes are you planning on taking? One of the witch's weaknesses is that her hexes don't scale when she multiclasses.

— It looks like you're taking the Strength patron specifically for Divine Power. I don't think I would do that, personally. Many of the other spells (such as Righteous Might) are worthless to an archer. That said, I see the benefit of having a quick attack roll boost: I just don't think its worth it because you don't have many spells per day.

— The 8th level Hedge Witch ability doesn't look all that great to me, but that's just my opinion I guess.

Here's what I would do:

— Witch 5 / Fighter 1. Get into Eldritch Knight at 6th level.
— Witch 5 / Fighter 1 / Eldritch Knight 3. Get into Arcane Archer at 10th level.
— Witch 5 / Fighter 1 / Eldritch Knight 3 / Arcane Archer 4. Go back to Eldritch Knight at 13th level.
— Witch 5 / Fighter 1 / Eldritch Knight 10 / Arcane Archer 4.

This accomplishes several things.
— Arcane Archer's seeker arrow ability is really great. Its arguably better than Improved Precise Shot, even if it has limited daily use.
— Arcane Archer's imbue arrow is even better: if you use a longbow, then you can modify any area spell to use your bow's range. There are plenty of nasty tricks you can do with this ability, most of which involve black tentacles.
— You cast spells as a 17th level witch and have a base attack bonus of +17. This means that you get 9th level spells (abet one per day) and still boast a wicked attack bonus; better than a cleric, actually.

Now, if I were you, I would focus my hexes on options that don't care about my witch level. Cauldron (Brew Potion as a feat for free) is a good example. Prestige Classes don't stack themselves with your witch level for improving your hexes OR your Patron Spells. That's right, you don't gain any patron spells beyond those earned at 5th level in this build.


Alexander Augunas wrote:

Some questions:

— Any reason you're plugging Eldritch Knight instead of Arcane Archer? Generally speaking, the benefits of arcane archer outweigh stacking your fighter level via Eldritch Knight levels.

— I'm not sure why you're trying to build towards here. It looks like you're trying to essentially be a bard: decent at fighting, some debuff spells and healing. Overall, its not a bad build. In fact, I sort of like it (though I'd like it better with Arcane Archer). What hexes are you planning on taking? One of the witch's weaknesses is that her hexes don't scale when she multiclasses.

— It looks like you're taking the Strength patron specifically for Divine Power. I don't think I would do that, personally. Many of the other spells (such as Righteous Might) are worthless to an archer. That said, I see the benefit of having a quick attack roll boost: I just don't think its worth it because you don't have many spells per day.

— The 8th level Hedge Witch ability doesn't look all that great to me, but that's just my opinion I guess.

Here's what I would do:

— Witch 5 / Fighter 1. Get into Eldritch Knight at 6th level.
— Witch 5 / Fighter 1 / Eldritch Knight 3. Get into Arcane Archer at 10th level.
— Witch 5 / Fighter 1 / Eldritch Knight 3 / Arcane Archer 4. Go back to Eldritch Knight at 13th level.
— Witch 5 / Fighter 1 / Eldritch Knight 10 / Arcane Archer 4.

This accomplishes several things.
— Arcane Archer's seeker arrow ability is really great. Its arguably better than Improved Precise Shot, even if it has limited daily use.
— Arcane Archer's imbue arrow is even better: if you use a longbow, then you can modify any area spell to use your bow's range. There are plenty of nasty tricks you can do with this ability, most of which involve black tentacles.
— You cast spells as a 17th level witch and have a base attack bonus of +17. This means that you get 9th level spells (abet one per day) and still boast a wicked attack bonus; better than a cleric, actually.

Now, if I were you, I would...

-The main reason I was going with Eldritch Knight over Arcane Archer was for the caster level progression. I am also keen on weapon spec for a little extra punch in a potentially MAD build. I do however, like your idea of mixing in 4 levels of Arcane Archer.

-The lack of hex progression is one reason I picked hedge witch and the healing hex. That and the fact that our healer is a druid and I am sure he could use a little help. I was also planning on taking tongues because you never know when you might need to be able to communicate and flight to help with survivability. As a side note... my last character was a bard and I was not a fan of the spell list. I normally play clerics but have been looking to change it up.

-The strength patron was really based on the thought of eventually combining arcane strike, greater magic weapon(patron lvl 6), divine power(patron lvl 8) and weapon specialization in addition to feats like deadly aim and rapid/many shot to add more arrows and more damage to my arrows without needing a high strength. If I were to only go to witch 5, another patron would be better for sure, divine favor and bulls strength won't do much for me.

avr wrote:

Why a witch? The spell list is poorly suited to buffing your attacks and the hexes are largely unrelated to archery. Sure, cloak of winds is a nice spell, but you don't have to be a witch to get it.

Edit: I misremembered. Witches don't get cloak of winds ... so you don't get nice defensive spells either. You're missing out on this, mirror image, divine power is an age away and you don't get haste or similar beforehand. I don;t see the reason for this combination of role and classes.

Perhaps you could add some ideas on a way to build an archer that can cast decently, heal without a wand and hit at least 16 BAB. I would honestly like to have your thoughts on the subject. I would like to add that wizards are not exactly my favorite, but I would not be completely opposed to considering one.


Brekum wrote:
Perhaps you could add some ideas on a way to build an archer that can cast decently, heal without a wand and hit at least 16 BAB. I would honestly like to have your thoughts on the subject. I would like to add that wizards are not exactly my favorite, but I would not be completely opposed to considering one.

Ranged Inquisitors seem to work very well.

2/3 BAB, Justice Judgment makes this almost full BAB
Cure spells on spell list
Good buffing Spells (Bless, Divine Favor, ...)
Good Damage with Bane
Use the Preacher Archetype to get rid of solo tactics (not so usefulfor ranged) and get superb rerolling abilities.(That could synergise well with Righteous Vigor?!)


Cackle+Vital strike=Win


Dustyboy wrote:
Cackle+Vital strike=Win

What?

Care to elaborate?
Cackle by itself does nothing?
Vital Strike for an archer?
?


[quote=]Prerequisites: Base attack bonus +6.

Benefit: When you use the attack action, you can make one attack at your highest base attack bonus that deals additional damage. Roll the weapon’s damage dice for the attack twice and add the results together before adding bonuses from Strength, weapon abilities (such as flaming), precision-based damage, and other damage bonuses. These extra weapon damage dice are not multiplied on a critical hit, but are added to the total.

Cackle simply extends your effects, and is a move action

So you can combine the two, debuff enemies and deal decent single target damage.


Evil eye + cackle + vital strike sounds like an interesting idea.

When going standard witch focused shot can be as good as, or even better than, vital strike. Instead of rolling twice you add your int bonus to damage. I don't know if it works but it might be interesting to look at kirin style, too.

Contributor

Dustyboy is right about cackle. Because cackling is a move action, you could effectively spend your first round of combat setting up a debuffing hex (Evil Eye is best because I don't think its penalties improve with level) and then for all subsequent rounds, you can spend one action to increase the duration and a second to attack for double damage with vital strike.

As a matter of fact, your Base Attack Bonus would be good enough that you could take Greater Vital Strike at 19th level, when you earn your final feat.

Between Greater Vital Strike, Weapon Specialization (which you said you wanted), and Greater Weapon Specialization (which you could qualify for if you saved your arcane archer levels for the final four levels of your career instead of taking my advice), you'd be rolling 4d10 damage + 16 (Deadly Aim) + 1 (Point Blank Shot) + 4 (Weapon Specialization and Greater Weapon Specialization) + 6 (Devastating Strike) + a free d6 from your choice of shocking, flaming, or frost a la arcane archer. That's an average of about 45 damage, with a maximum of 73 damage.

Is it great? Not really. Vital Strike is best when you A) have a low attack bonus or B) have a good source of extra damage like sneak attack. But its still an option, and not a bad one at that. 45 damage + extending your debuffs is pretty cool.

Contributor

If you worship Erastil, Savior's Arrow could be a fun feat for you.

Its from Inner Sea Gods and it allows you to shoot your allies with a cure wounds spell once per day. You effectively use your longbow's range for the cure spell instead of "touched creature."

Its once per day, but good for an emergency snipe heal on someone far from you.


If you particularly dislike wizards and you want to heal then I'd go with a cleric. Maybe Cleric 8 / Holy Vindicator 10 / Cleric +2. Choose a deity with longbow as the favored weapon (in Golarion, Erastil; probably Feather and Growth sub domains). Later on you might get the Channel Smite and Guided Hand feats to reduce the number of attributes you need to get stat boosters for, but initially you'll need the feats for archery.

You don't lose caster levels until after you get the good archery buffs, your BAB at 20 is +18, you can wear armour, as a cleric all the healing spells are yours, you can fly using your own spells, and you get a pet to hold off people trying to melee you.

Witches spells just aren't as good at buffing as their competition.


avr wrote:

If you particularly dislike wizards and you want to heal then I'd go with a cleric. Maybe Cleric 8 / Holy Vindicator 10 / Cleric +2. Choose a deity with longbow as the favored weapon (in Golarion, Erastil; probably Feather and Growth sub domains). Later on you might get the Channel Smite and Guided Hand feats to reduce the number of attributes you need to get stat boosters for, but initially you'll need the feats for archery.

You don't lose caster levels until after you get the good archery buffs, your BAB at 20 is +18, you can wear armour, as a cleric all the healing spells are yours, you can fly using your own spells, and you get a pet to hold off people trying to melee you.

Witches spells just aren't as good at buffing as their competition.

I had actually looked at building a cleric first. I usually play clerics and was looking for something different. The idea of the animal companion is actually making me reconsider. Only thing I am worried about is having a lvl 11 animal companion at lvl 20.(lvl 7 w/out boon companion) Any suggestions to overcome this?


I might also point out that a composite longbow, in conjunction with gravity bow.... and The Orc witch doctor archetype (Con casting)You will wind up as a dex/con character with a higher than average str, throwing in the Mother's teeth trait (Or if your DM allows it, toothy) will give you the ability to actually deal with enemies at a closer range for those tight spots.

Charisma,Wisdom, and Int can safely be dumped.


Dustyboy wrote:

I might also point out that a composite longbow, in conjunction with gravity bow.... and The Orc witch doctor archetype (Con casting)You will wind up as a dex/con character with a higher than average str, throwing in the Mother's teeth trait (Or if your DM allows it, toothy) will give you the ability to actually deal with enemies at a closer range for those tight spots.

Charisma,Wisdom, and Int can safely be dumped.

That could be fun!I could use the trait Two-world magic to learn Penumbra as a way to counter the attack penalty for light sensitivity. Then I would have to sacrifice Magical knack though, and I would be hard pressed to get above 16 for con and dex.. both of which I would want to be as high as possible. Of course, I would have a pretty nice strength as an orc. I would probobly want to take the fighter1/witch5/Eldrich Knight 10/Arcane Archer 4 approach with this build. Incorporate the cakel/evil eye combo since I wouldn't be a hedge witch. Could even pick up a two hander and use vital strike as suggested. But, I am worried about my mental stats with the penalties imposed by Orc on top of the lack of bonuses to dex and con.


Most simply take less levels in holy vindicator; cleric 8 / holy vindicator 4 / cleric +8 gets you +16 BAB by 20 if barely and leaves you with a level 17 companion at 20 assuming boon companion. I'd thought of the AC as a low level trick but you can keep it going if desired.

If you'd be willing to relax the BAB requirement a bard with the dawnflower dervish and songhealer archetypes could be excellent both at healing and archery.

Dumping all your mental stats makes a character I wouldn't want to play, but that is the entire strength of the scarred witch doctor archetype. You can mitigate it slightly by playing a half orc instead, by RAW they should be able to take any orc-only options like archetypes.

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