ape Vs tiger (black Puma) Vs wolf : animal companion


Advice


all with the totem guide archtype.

compariosn:
ape:
down side: lower hp, no special attacks.
upsdie: got reach, got climb speed, can learn to use a weapon....so can pass DR issues, weailind axe 2 handed.
if using reduce animal, and hooded, can really go un noticed.

tiger:
down side: really scary to walk beside you at cities. corny a bit. not so good Vs creatures with Dr. no reach.
up side: amazing damage especially when pounce. grab is amazing Vs casters. rake is icing.

wolf:
i like 1 attackers - vital strike and move.
had the best armor among those and ultra HP.
got trip (nice)
if medium, can really walk a city alone.
downside:
so-so damage abilities.
very "iconic"

tactics usage:
ape: learn toughness + ppower attack + a weapon and wield it to victory. attack hard with a 2 handed weapon or shred. can climb and use reach to stay safe.

tiger: all out damage feats. it is a damge beast. nothing else to add.

wolf: a great spring attack canidate, with move of 60 (long strider) can attack and run really well...

thoughs?


Its very hard to compete mechanically with pounce. The You can charge pounce bite claw claw rake rake and wrack up some serious damage.

[Arnold] Its naht ah puhmaaa[/arnold]


i agree, but APEs got 2 things playing for them:
1. use a weapon so you can 1 attack 2 hander to pass DR
2. reach with climb to avoid blows


666bender wrote:

i agree, but APEs got 2 things playing for them:

1. use a weapon so you can 1 attack 2 hander to pass DR
2. reach with climb to avoid blows

The default assumption in pathfinder is you can't get an ape to use a weapon. Your DM might let you though Linky

Liberty's Edge

Eldritch Claws helps with DR, as does a good enough Amulet of Mighty Fists.

Just for the record.

Shadow Lodge

If you are investing in INT to learn a weapon use, instead take Weapon Versatility to do any damage type you wish.


Deadmanwalking wrote:

Eldritch Claws helps with DR, as does a good enough Amulet of Mighty Fists.

Just for the record.

silver is rare.... and magic you get form ter magic fang any how....

sadly, amulet of mighty fist are impossible to get as no magic item buying.

Sovereign Court

Ape gets large at 4, and with its reach it's a bit better as an area-control ally...but at level 7 especially tiger's damage really shines through.

If you buff the Int, RAW allows you to give Ape an EWP: Fauchard but your DM might not let it go.


666bender wrote:
Deadmanwalking wrote:

Eldritch Claws helps with DR, as does a good enough Amulet of Mighty Fists.

Just for the record.

silver is rare.... and magic you get form ter magic fang any how....

sadly, amulet of mighty fist are impossible to get as no magic item buying.

Ah, items are limited, and you have to rely upon your own enchantments? Then that is an advantage for the wolf then (Assuming apes don't get to use weapons). This is because it has only one natural weapon to enchant, and that one deals 1.5x str and power attack damage due to the 'only one weapon' rule.

And due to the way multiattack works for animal companions, it gets an iterative attack with its bite at level 9, which helps to boost its power.


lemeres wrote:
666bender wrote:
Deadmanwalking wrote:

Eldritch Claws helps with DR, as does a good enough Amulet of Mighty Fists.

Just for the record.

silver is rare.... and magic you get form ter magic fang any how....

sadly, amulet of mighty fist are impossible to get as no magic item buying.

Ah, items are limited, and you have to rely upon your own enchantments? Then that is an advantage for the wolf then (Assuming apes don't get to use weapons). This is because it has only one natural weapon to enchant, and that one deals 1.5x str and power attack damage due to the 'only one weapon' rule.

And due to the way multiattack works for animal companions, it gets an iterative attack with its bite at level 9, which helps to boost its power.

on the easy buff, i agree multi attackers only get +1 with greater magic fang, but i wont get the irerative attack fro wolf, the totem archtype deny it....


666bender wrote:
on the easy buff, i agree multi attackers only get +1 with greater magic fang, but i wont get the irerative attack fro wolf, the totem archtype deny it....

Oh, whoops... hmm...then that is also a point against the wolf...


lemeres wrote:
666bender wrote:
on the easy buff, i agree multi attackers only get +1 with greater magic fang, but i wont get the irerative attack fro wolf, the totem archtype deny it....
Oh, whoops... hmm...then that is also a point against the wolf...

one down....

Ape:
Dm allow him to use simple to use weapons like spears and clubs, maybe axe. not swords ....
so, the apr can use long spear for 10-15 reach or 3 attack with 10'. climb speed --- and thats it.
i will have to use feats for learning grapple or bull rush so he can do something other than attack.

tiger:
grab out of the box.
amazing damage and a charger master with rakes.
no reach, no 2 hander weapon so need a plan for DR issues, maybe bull rush? sunder?


The Big Cat is probably the best animal companion overall. I'd avoid the Wolf unless you have some plans involving Tandem Trip. The Ape's reach could be useful if you plan to play AoO games. Combat Reflexes and or Broken Wing Gambit could both be good for that. You could also use an Ape with Lunge or a reach weapon to strike from behind summoned monsters for a little extra damage without much risk.

Depending on your class it might make sense to consider whether you want to "Ride the Tiger". For a Druid with wildshape it probably isn't worthwhile, but for other PCs there can be a lot of advantages to being mounted, the most basic of which is concentrating your team's offensive power into a smaller number of squares (nice for tight spaces)


666bender wrote:


tactics usage:
ape: learn toughness + ppower attack + a weapon and wield it to victory. attack hard with a 2 handed weapon or shred. can climb and use reach to stay safe.

tiger: all out damage feats. it is a damge beast. nothing else to add.

wolf: a great spring attack canidate, with move of 60 (long strider) can attack and run really well...

thoughs?

It depends on you, your group, your DM and your Campaign.

I guess you are a druid, since you took a Totem guide Companion for extra spells.
What does your character want to do? Flank with your Companion or stand back and cast? Are you going to Summon other minions? Who else is in party and what do they do? Does your GM love to focus Animal Companions or does he never do so?

The Ape is the squishiest, but with the longspear he has reach and should be able to deal good damage with Power Attack. Exploiting reach can help a lot.
You could also teach your Ape to use other items like throwing weapons or even teach him to be a poor wandmonkey.

The wolf is the taniest. If you know your GM is out to kill Companions, the wolf will be the best out of the three. Also if you lack some other frontliners and the poor wolf will get focussed a lot.
Ask your GM, if the wolf will be allowed to qualify for Trip Feats due to his Trip special ability. If you get Greater Trip running his will buff up the wolves damage a lot.
Also if you or your allies wanna do some Tandem Tripping, the wolf will be helpful.
Also ask about the Campaign. Being able to walk freely around the city is a great bonus in some Campaigns, but useless, if you spend the entire time in a dungeon anyway.
I wouldn't take Spring Attack. Even if your GM is nice and allows it to work with vital strike, the wolf still needs three feats to pull it off, which is quite a lot. I'd rather go for Trip.

The Cat has slightly more HP than the Ape, but cannot penetrate DR that well(DR Silver is good but not enough).
It will likely cause the most damage, but it has to be at the front all the time. Therefore it is the one, that will be in greatest danger in fights.
If your GM never focusses dat cat and you don't need to worry about frontline support, the cat will be the best.

Last but not least: All of them are solid choices. The Cat is generally considered the default for it being arguably the best damage dealer of all the Companions. The Ape has a vaguely human physique, your DM will allow weapons. You will have to get creative and use his other item slots to make him viable. The wolfs Trip will be the most useful if fighting lots of humanoid foes. His tankiness helps against mean GMs.


So, wolf is out .
Another option to consider the comparison: trex .
Losing multi attack sucks , but it will still do 3d6 + 22 and grab at reach. Highest armor class but low hp. DR penetrator.

So, we got the ape - no special but as he can use a weapon, with long spear he will fight at reach of 15-20 feet - keeping him safe.

Tiger - amazing damage , really high. But lowest armor and so-so hp making him fregile.

Trex - armored a hit wonder , poor movement, low hp VERY weird looker in a city and might draw attention...


The T-Rex can grasp objects. If you can find a way to make it talk it could potentially use wands. Finally we'd know what those tiny arms are good for.


Just have your ape throw returning barrels

Favored Enemy: Plumber

steal the princess

Win


Thought you cant rake on the turn you grapple


Insain Dragoon wrote:
Thought you cant rake on the turn you grapple

true -but if the opponent wont get out and prefer to rip the poor low armor kitty - there will be vengence


Devilkiller wrote:
The T-Rex can grasp objects. If you can find a way to make it talk it could potentially use wands. Finally we'd know what those tiny arms are good for.

Dm say Trex cant really use hands... and using wands will require at least int of 8-10


http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/druid/animal-companions#TOC-Qu etzalcoatlus

It qualifies for hover... HOVER

three nat attacks


Dustyboy wrote:

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/druid/animal-companions#TOC-Qu etzalcoatlus

It qualifies for hover... HOVER

three nat attacks

the trex is almost banned in cities... a flying killer dino ---- will be shot dead. amazing though.

The Exchange

Insain Dragoon wrote:
Thought you cant rake on the turn you grapple

This has been resolved by James Jacobs already. Pounce allows the rake attack WITHOUT being grappled (thus you get all attacks including the rake on the turn you pounce).

Source: message board under ... RulesQuestion/Pounce and Rake from Apr 17,2010 02:43pm (sorry - don't know how to create link so have to give path)

edited to attempt link:
[url=http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2kq4n?Pounce-and-Rake#4]

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