I've been playing around with a concept that's been in my head for awhile now. The basic concept is a halfling thug. One who started out as the biggest toughest halfling kid in his isolated halfling village and is now out in the big world with the giants.
So obviously a martial character and strength based rather than a Dex build. Other than that, I'm open to suggestions.
I've currently got a version statted up as a barbarian and even ran through a PFS scenario that way. At low level, even a weak 2H barbarian is perfectly functional, but that's not likely to last to higher levels.
Any thoughts on a more functional approach? Archetypes? Other classes? Fighter or Ranger would work conceptually. Maybe Cavalier. Not Paladin - the attitude is wrong.
Since he's never going to hit the DPR of a larger stronger thug, would going for a damage absorbing tank approach make more sense?
Halfling cavalier riding a battle emu!
Honestly a halfling barbar isn't that much worse than any other race. assuming a 4 point difference is STR the halfling has -1 to hit and -2 to damage and +2 AC in combat versus a human barbar who put their points into STR and has the same base stats. The risky striker feat is like a second power attack which stacks with power attack when fighting large or larger foes so a halfling might be able to out DPR a human.
Halfling Barbarian aren't bad at all, and works about as well late-game as early, maybe better. You're basically 4 Strength behind other Barbarians throughout your career...but that matters slightly less when your strength is 26 while raging (would've been 30 as a human) than when it's 18 while raging (would've been 22 as a Human).
That said, both Paladin and Cavalier are likely better mechanically, and you say Cavalier works thematically... Both can have mounts (which are quite good on small characters, lances are scary and extra attacks from the mount add to DPR), both can make much better use of the Halfling Charisma bonus, and both have large static damage additives (Challenge and Smite), making Strength less essential.
Even as a Barbarian, Mounted Fury might be worth looking into. With Boon Companion it actually gives you a solid mount.
Those three (Cavalier, Barbarian, and Paladin...or Antipaladin in a home Evil game, I guess) are pretty much your good options for strength-based melee Halflings, though.
thejeff wrote: At low level, even a weak 2H barbarian is perfectly functional, but that's not likely to last to higher levels. Actually, as you level the damage loss from your lack of strength and small weapon damage dice will multiply for every extra attack you make, but the difference between your attack power and the human barbarian will get smaller and smaller because your attack/magic items scale at the same rate. Because of the games design, you'll never catch up and you were born bad for the job, but it won't suddenly be horrible. Lower levels might actually be the worst of it.
I'd say if you go barbarian, go Urban Barbarian and use an agile weapon like a keen scimitar, taking full advantage of your dexterity. That should even things out I'd say.
If you want to go the strength route, I'd suggest perhaps Invulnerable Rager.
cnetarian wrote: Honestly a halfling barbar isn't that much worse than any other race. assuming a 4 point difference is STR the halfling has -1 to hit and -2 to damage and +2 AC in combat versus a human barbar who put their points into STR and has the same base stats. The risky striker feat is like a second power attack which stacks with power attack when fighting large or larger foes so a halfling might be able to out DPR a human. Well, the damage is a little bit worse: An extra -1 roughly for using small weapons and the 2pts of str damage become 3 with 2-Handed weapons. Which are still your best choice.
So Raged Power Attack Small Greatsword 14(+4) str L1
+5 1d10+9 avg = 14.5
vs
Raged Power Attack Medium Greatsword 18(+4) str L1
+6 2d6+12 avg = 19
For a small character A charger is the way to go. In the way of charger The paladin is King but Cavalier, Ranger, Barb are not far behind the damage train that is Spirited Charge.
I'm currently playing a mounted ranger in PFS and I've yet to come across anyone doing anything near my damage.
@ level 5 I am Spirited Charging for 3d6+39 without favored enemy or any buffs. Just Strength,Power attack, & a +1 magic weapon. Minimum 42 Max 58.
Against a Favored enemy and Buffed (lead Blades) I do 3d8+42 or more if more buff are thrown on me.
That is nothing to sneer at coming from a guy who can take a mount anywhere, climbs walls, and can charge from ceilings/walls/crazy angles on his Giant Gecko.
How set are you on going Barbarian?
I made myself a Halfling Rogue (Knifemaster/Scout Archetype) and had fun with him. Only real problem I had with this was the way I designed it, the class/Archetypes was very MAD.
I've also read about very Thuggish sounding Rogue Archetypes that is built around non-lethal damage & (I believe) intimidate. Can't remember what it's called but if you're interested in taking a look at this type of build I can try to find it for you later (working and not supposed to be on PC) :( or someone else here can point it out for you.
You need a tough Halflin', huh?
Matt2VK wrote: I've also read about very Thuggish sounding Rogue Archetypes... Erm... Thug? Throw in sapmaster rogue talent things with enforcer for extra goodness. Sword of mercy and enforcer also do non lethal and intimidate to work with thug.
TO be honest if Paizo would fix the Halfling Sling Staff problem then Halflings would be a lot better. =/ Man I wish them sling feats worked with a Sling-staff.
Halfling are good martials. You are losing dmage but you are not losing attack rating. And at higher levels, where big enemies are pretty common, the risky striker just make the halfling agreat damage dealer.
Besides the halfling gain a bonus to AC, saving trhows and it is no longer slow race.
Besides the bonus to Charisma means you perhaps can take the eldritch heritage for some more optiosn besides doing damage, or go orc and just have more str.
thejeff wrote: cnetarian wrote: Honestly a halfling barbar isn't that much worse than any other race. assuming a 4 point difference is STR the halfling has -1 to hit and -2 to damage and +2 AC in combat versus a human barbar who put their points into STR and has the same base stats. The risky striker feat is like a second power attack which stacks with power attack when fighting large or larger foes so a halfling might be able to out DPR a human. Well, the damage is a little bit worse: An extra -1 roughly for using small weapons and the 2pts of str damage become 3 with 2-Handed weapons. Which are still your best choice.
So Raged Power Attack Small Greatsword 14(+4) str L1
+5 1d10+9 avg = 14.5
vs
Raged Power Attack Medium Greatsword 18(+4) str L1
+6 2d6+12 avg = 19
Yes, but it will always be the same difference (4.5 points if using a greatsword, 4 points if using a nodachi or falchion). The risky striker feat scales (albeit only against large or larger opponents)- at level 4 risky striker adds 4 damage per hit so the halfling barbarian is on par for damage with a nodachi/falchion, and at level 8 a halfling does 1.5 more damage per hit with a greatsword using risky striker against a large opponent. The halfling does have a lower chance to hit though, and has to burn a precious feat to get risky striker. Overall there doesn't seem to be that much difference between the performance of the two races.
Alexandros Satorum wrote: Halfling are good martials. You are losing dmage but you are not losing attack rating. And at higher levels, where big enemies are pretty common, the risky striker just make the halfling agreat damage dealer.
Besides the halfling gain a bonus to AC, saving trhows and it is no longer slow race.
Besides the bonus to Charisma means you perhaps can take the eldritch heritage for some more optiosn besides doing damage, or go orc and just have more str.
Risky Striker does look good.
But Eldritch Heritage? 2 feats for +2 Str at 11th (+4 at 13th) And you need a 15 charisma. That's pretty expensive and pretty late. Or am I missing a trick? Most of the 1st level bloodline powers are pretty useless.
Fruian Thistlefoot wrote: TO be honest if Paizo would fix the Halfling Sling Staff problem then Halflings would be a lot better. =/ Man I wish them sling feats worked with a Sling-staff. Yeah. It's still going to be my main range weapon at low levels.
Matt2VK wrote: How set are you on going Barbarian?
I made myself a Halfling Rogue (Knifemaster/Scout Archetype) and had fun with him. Only real problem I had with this was the way I designed it, the class/Archetypes was very MAD.
I've also read about very Thuggish sounding Rogue Archetypes that is built around non-lethal damage & (I believe) intimidate. Can't remember what it's called but if you're interested in taking a look at this type of build I can try to find it for you later (working and not supposed to be on PC) :( or someone else here can point it out for you.
Not so much on barbarian, but pretty set on straight martial rather than rogue types.
Deadmanwalking wrote: Halfling Barbarian aren't bad at all, and works about as well late-game as early, maybe better. You're basically 4 Strength behind other Barbarians throughout your career...but that matters slightly less when your strength is 26 while raging (would've been 30 as a human) than when it's 18 while raging (would've been 22 as a Human).
That said, both Paladin and Cavalier are likely better mechanically, and you say Cavalier works thematically... Both can have mounts (which are quite good on small characters, lances are scary and extra attacks from the mount add to DPR), both can make much better use of the Halfling Charisma bonus, and both have large static damage additives (Challenge and Smite), making Strength less essential.
Even as a Barbarian, Mounted Fury might be worth looking into. With Boon Companion it actually gives you a solid mount.
Those three (Cavalier, Barbarian, and Paladin...or Antipaladin in a home Evil game, I guess) are pretty much your good options for strength-based melee Halflings, though.
I'll have to take another look at Cavalier. Or even a mounted ranger as Fruian Thistlefoot suggested.
I'm still leaning towards Barbarian/Invulnerable Rager. I may try a PFS scenario with a mount, just to see how that plays. Then rebuild to my final choice before 2nd level.
thejeff wrote: Alexandros Satorum wrote: Halfling are good martials. You are losing dmage but you are not losing attack rating. And at higher levels, where big enemies are pretty common, the risky striker just make the halfling agreat damage dealer.
Besides the halfling gain a bonus to AC, saving trhows and it is no longer slow race.
Besides the bonus to Charisma means you perhaps can take the eldritch heritage for some more optiosn besides doing damage, or go orc and just have more str.
Risky Striker does look good.
But Eldritch Heritage? 2 feats for +2 Str at 11th (+4 at 13th) And you need a 15 charisma. That's pretty expensive and pretty late. Or am I missing a trick? Most of the 1st level bloodline powers are pretty useless. ACtually Orc bloodline is not my favorite choise for eldritch heritage. I prefer those feats for more options instead of RAW power.
Arcane bloodline: You can bond your weapon and enchant it without the feats. In my book that is great for classes that can not cast spells. The familiar is also great when you have improved familiar, it is basically a factory of buff spells: shield, liberating command, true strike, etc.
Fey bloodline: It give you a no save great debuff. Not that useful against mook, but against BBEG (solo fights) it is devastating. It is also great if you do not pounce. Also the next ability is great invisibility which is great.
If you want, you can take Noble Scion and choose Scion of War at first level so you don't feel so bad about having to boost your dexterity for Eldritch Heritage.
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Bloodrager Halfling with Noble Scion at first level then going Eldritch Heritage? That's pretty damn good.
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