Boss Idea Help


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I'm working on a boss character for my current campaign that I'm half-running. The idea is a level 30 character (with minimum 19 levels in Summoner. this class is required by the story) who will be attacked by approx 6-7 lvl 20 PCs. My questions are as follows (and I'd really appreciate all input):

1) Is lvl 30 right for the aforementioned group of PCs? Too high? Too low? Mind you, most of them are romping around with an average of 30-45 AC and specializing pretty heavily in their chosen fields.

2) I'm debating on having him augment himself, through Greater Aspect, with an extra pair of arms. If I have him running with a total of four arms, how specifically would that effect his actual combat? The reason I'm confused on this is that there aren't really any clear-cut rules on use of BAB with additional arms. Not that I've found anyway. I know that the character's base BAB applies to the primary weapon, while the off-hand (assuming a light weapon in the off-hand and two-weapon fighting) is usually the same. As the math seems to work out, for example, let's say a rogue dual-wielding Sun Blades has a BAB of +15/+10/+5 and has improved two-weapon fighting. Then their main-hand would be (ignoring additions like STR bonuses or weapon finesse, etc) +15/+10/+5 and the off-hand attacks would be +15/+10 respectively. But I'm not, AT ALL, sure how that would work with four arms. Would it simply assume the rules of additional monster attacks where each subsequent attack would come at a -5 to the atk roll? Example: Main-hand swings for a +20, first off-hand swings for +15, second for +10, third for +5. Is that about the size of it?

3) Suggestions for complementary class options? I'm torn between Dragon Disciple and Fighter for the 10 lvls beyond 20th. If I go D. Disciple it will be a build of lv 19 Summoner, lv 1 Sorc, lv 10 D. Disc. If I go Fighter it will be lv 20 Summoner, lv 10 Fighter. I dunno. Ideas?

Any and all assistance with the above-stated matters would be greatly appreciated.

Liberty's Edge

Epic Hoagie wrote:


2) I'm debating on having him augment himself, through Greater Aspect, with an extra pair of arms. If I have him running with a total of four arms, how specifically would that effect his actual combat? The reason I'm confused on this is that there aren't really any clear-cut rules on use of BAB with additional arms. Not that I've found anyway. I know that the character's base BAB applies to the primary weapon, while the off-hand (assuming a light weapon in the off-hand and two-weapon fighting) is usually the same. As the math seems to work out, for example, let's say a rogue dual-wielding Sun Blades has a BAB of +15/+10/+5 and has improved two-weapon fighting. Then their main-hand would be (ignoring additions like STR bonuses or weapon finesse, etc) +15/+10/+5 and the off-hand attacks would be +15/+10 respectively. But I'm not, AT ALL, sure how that would work with four arms. Would it simply assume the rules of additional monster attacks where each subsequent attack would come at a -5 to the atk roll? Example: Main-hand swings for a +20, first off-hand swings for +15, second for +10, third for +5. Is that about the size of it?

No, the main hand gets all of the iteratives, the rules you are looking for are under the feat Multiweapon Combat: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/multiweapon-fighting-combat

Follow the link from there to Two Weapon Combat as well.


In my experience and opinion, single creature "boss" encounters almost never work well. The action economy eats them alive. You're never more than a single failed saving throw from losing instantly, and 6-7 level 20 PCs will have no trouble (between spells, quickened spells, familiars, pets, summoned monsters, spell-storing weapons, whatever) generating 20 such saving throws in a single round.

The usual -- and poor -- solution is simply to declare the boss immune by fiat to everything except hit point attrition, which has the effect of making the entire combat dull.

The math works out okay (such as it is) : 7 level 20 characters with PC wealth is about a level 26 equivalent CR, and the boss is going to be overly powerful but hampered by the action economy, which should make it roughly acceptable.

Given that the boss will be using his actions to cast spells, you really want some kind of complementary class that grants a lot of passive bonuses as opposed to has cool abilities he won't be able to use. Dragon Disciple probably won't do it (IMHO), but Fighter or even Monk might. AntiPaladin is another good one for this build, esp. with all the awesome charisma bonuses a summoner is likely to have.


Usagi Yojimbo wrote:


No, the main hand gets all of the iteratives, the rules you are looking for are under the feat Multiweapon Combat: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/multiweapon-fighting-combat
Follow the link from there to Two Weapon Combat as well.

Ohhhhhhh. Thanks :D That helps a lot!


Orfamay Quest wrote:

In my experience and opinion, single creature "boss" encounters almost never work well. The action economy eats them alive. You're never more than a single failed saving throw from losing instantly, and 6-7 level 20 PCs will have no trouble (between spells, quickened spells, familiars, pets, summoned monsters, spell-storing weapons, whatever) generating 20 such saving throws in a single round.

The usual -- and poor -- solution is simply to declare the boss immune by fiat to everything except hit point attrition, which has the effect of making the entire combat dull.

The math works out okay (such as it is) : 7 level 20 characters with PC wealth is about a level 26 equivalent CR, and the boss is going to be overly powerful but hampered by the action economy, which should make it roughly acceptable.

Given that the boss will be using his actions to cast spells, you really want some kind of complementary class that grants a lot of passive bonuses as opposed to has cool abilities he won't be able to use. Dragon Disciple probably won't do it (IMHO), but Fighter or even Monk might. AntiPaladin is another good one for this build, esp. with all the awesome charisma bonuses a summoner is likely to have.

Well, he WILL have his Eidolon about as well. Think I should paint up a few minions as well? Maybe some guards at level 20? Some new info from today suggests the party may be 21 or 22 by the time they get to him.


If I may suggest i would give serious consideration to a master summoner. My logic for this is two fold...

1) the action economy will often get a solo boss killed fast OR he quickly kills one maybe two companions, but still dies to the masses. This is not always so but it very hard to setup properly and some hate from lady love could still both the plan.

2) by adding all the various summons you can take what amounts to a big boss fight into a small encounter. U could if u wanted to, orchestrate some 30+ monsters being summoned over time. Then when it finally gets to the big bad boss they still have to deal with someone as mean as they are. Brutal in the extreme but I believe the players will feel an accomplishment.

Now as for the other 10 levels. Dragon disciple is solid with the attribute bonuses and of course the dragon form. Of the options u specifically mentioned that would b my choice. Paladin or anti-paladin is also very strong with the saves and smite like effects. But my vote is oracle or cleric if u want to be mean to the players. The combination of channeling either positive or negative energy (depending on if u buff or debuff) is just brutal with numbers like this. Healing a dozen creatures almost will be overpowering though. Still it b cool.

Finally, as I mentioned a LV 30 character that is "power gamed"will decimate a group 6 LV 20s unless they are well made or u give a little help in story or circumstance. Perhaps they grab an item that restricts the summoners power somewhat? Here's a consideration... 10 levels of DD is just a little short of the average life of an arcane caster of level 20. Add on toughness, favored class to health, and ur other 20 levels of summoner and u could in theory come out to almost 2.5 characters health on his own. Add eidolon into that and it gets interesting fast.

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