Barbarian. Weapon Enhancement: Courageous or Keen


Advice


I am building a Level 6 Half Elf Barbarian. I am asking for advice on whether yall think the Courageous weapon enhancement or the Keen enhancement is better. It probably comes down to preference but I wanted to ask anyway.

He is carrying a Greatsword and his Rage Powers are Superstition, Witchhunter, and Reckless Abandon. I also took Extra Rage Power as a feat and added Ghost Rager. He has a thing against spell casters.

Oh and btw I have run a Barbarian with Furious already and wanted something different so that is why I am not looking to add that enhancement. Thanks in advance.


I would do Holy but can't afford it.


Or has anyone ever used Vicious before. Extra 2d6 damage but you also take 1d6 damage.

Liberty's Edge

Courageous is eminently worth it combined with Furious. Getting Furious and then Courageous is the way to go, mechanically speaking. Keen can be duplicated with a Feat...which Courageous and Furious certainly cannot.


Are you using a Falchion?
Get Keen
Are you not using a Falchion?
Don't bother.


Well, it is worth noting that Courageous doesn't stack with Superstition since they bonus provide morale bonus. Of course, the weapon works even when not raging, but it isn't exactly a killer amount.

Speaking of killing, keen weapons can do that ever so slightly better than non-keen weapons. I'd go with Keen.


Some people around here seem to think the "courageous" property is too good to be true, but only in the higher levels - your weapon should have an enhancement bonus of +4. In your case I would rather take keen than courageous.

But usually it's best to go for the numbers (+5) - maybe boring but technically usually the best Option (because of to hit and DR).

Liberty's Edge

MurphysParadox wrote:

Well, it is worth noting that Courageous doesn't stack with Superstition since they bonus provide morale bonus. Of course, the weapon works even when not raging, but it isn't exactly a killer amount.

The fear resistance does not stack, however,

Courageous wrote:
In addition, any morale bonus the wielder gains from any other source is increased by half the weapon's enhancement bonus (minimum 1).

So that boost to Strength and Constitution? Both are morale bonuses and therefor would both gain a minimum of a +1 to each while using the weapon.


Fomsie wrote:
MurphysParadox wrote:

Well, it is worth noting that Courageous doesn't stack with Superstition since they bonus provide morale bonus. Of course, the weapon works even when not raging, but it isn't exactly a killer amount.

The fear resistance does not stack, however,

Courageous wrote:
In addition, any morale bonus the wielder gains from any other source is increased by half the weapon's enhancement bonus (minimum 1).

So that boost to Strength and Constitution? Both are morale bonuses and therefor would both gain a minimum of a +1 to each while using the weapon.

Don't forget that that second clause also means that the bonus from superstition is increased as well.

Liberty's Edge

Fomsie wrote:
So that boost to Strength and Constitution? Both are morale bonuses and therefor would both gain a minimum of a +1 to each while using the weapon.

RAW? Yes. there's a giant thread in the rules forum argiung whether that's intended, though.

I'd allow it.


My saves are pretty high due to the way I built it so Courageous wouldn't be a big deal not to have. Having a greatsword crit 17-20 would be great. Crit about 20% of the time. I liked Furious but this time around would rather have something that helped even if not raging.


Deadmanwalking wrote:
Fomsie wrote:
So that boost to Strength and Constitution? Both are morale bonuses and therefor would both gain a minimum of a +1 to each while using the weapon.

RAW? Yes. there's a giant thread in the rules forum argiung whether that's intended, though.

I'd allow it.

Don't mention that abomination. Please keep the other threads clean of that discussion.


Any of yall ever use or see someone use Vicious?


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Corlel wrote:
Any of yall ever use or see someone use Vicious?

If you are the main/only source of damage, then combine vicious and merciful. +2 equivalent, +3d6 damage, +1d6 to you, all nonlethal. Take advantage of the fact that nonlethal damage is parallel to lethal.


Thats interesting with the merciful addition. Hadnt seen that before.

Grand Lodge

I recommend a +1 Keen with the information you Provided.

If you Have a Magic User with these spells on their known spells:

Vampiric Touch, Bestow Curse, Blindness, Brow Gnasher, Corrosive Touch, Shocking Grasp, Ghoul Touch, Excruciating Deformation, Frigid Touch, Touch of Fatigue

I recommend Spell Storing and loading it up on off days or just letting you deliver all the touch spells for the day for them. It is an extra 3rd or lower spell per day if loaded the night before. AND if you run out of good spells Touch of Fatigue is a 0 level spell you can have every combat.

So a +1 spell Storing, Keen, ________ + Pearl of Power 3rd level for recasting of Greater Magic Weapon.


I just saw the spell storing enhancement. I will look into that as well.

Scarab Sages

Corlel wrote:
Thats interesting with the merciful addition. Hadnt seen that before.

Really? Well you might just be in for a treat then :).


Corlel wrote:
Any of yall ever use or see someone use Vicious?

I used it on my Invulnerable Barbarian at 10th level. I had 5 DR/- when I got it.


voska66 wrote:
Corlel wrote:
Any of yall ever use or see someone use Vicious?
I used it on my Invulnerable Barbarian at 10th level. I had 5 DR/- when I got it.

Careful. Theres debate on whether Vicious is physical damage or not.


Why wouldn't the damage from Vicious be like any other damage?


Vicious states that it causes "a flash of disruptive energy", it later states that this energy causes the extra damage. (Core pg. 472)

Damage reduction states that it does not negate energy damage dealt along with an attack (Core pg 561)

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