So my girlfriend recently got her first character up to level 2, and we're going to go through the leveling up process before our next game tomorrow night. Since she's new to the game, I want to come up with a list of feats for her to pick from that will be simple enough for a new player to understand and use.
Her build is an Elf Fighter, using an Elven Curved Blade with Weapon Finesse and Power Attack. She also has the Lore Warden archetype for extra Knowledge skills.
So far, I've identified these candidates:
-Improved Trip (she'll get Combat Expertise for free from the archetype, and this will give her something to do besides swing for damage)
-Weapon Focus (simple, never need to remember to use it, and qualify for Weapon Specialization later, but rather boring)
-Blind-Fight (we had to fight in deeper darkness in the last game, so this might appeal to her, but it's situational)
Any other suggestions?
RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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You had to deal with deeper darkness at 1st level? Yikes.
Anyway, if you want a good baseline for standard feat choices, you might look at Step 4.
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I would like to know her Stat Lay out as well. Weapon finesse? Is her dex higher then her Str? What is her Str at?
Combat reflexes will be a must for all the maneuvers. Trip them they will provoke standing up. Disarm them they will provoke if they go for their weapon. She can also grab a reach weapon and wreck some havoc.
IIRC, her stats are 14/18/12/14/12/7.
I'd go with Cleave, it's one of the better low level feats in my opinion.
She's a new player and rolling more attacks is fun. You can swap it out at level 4 per rules of being a fighter.
Trip is nice, but it's more of a support role and I think something that gives more spotlight to new players is a good thing. It could be she likes the support role however.
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Furious focus goes with power attack and only works on 2 handed attacks.
If using a 2 handed weapon, I would go with power attack and furious focus. The combo adds bonuses to damage with no penalty to attack.
Other good feats include: improved initiative, weapon focus:_____, cleave, toughness, and dodge.
Weapon Focus is better than Furious Focus, at least at level 2 (assuming there is a weapon that you will stick to, but I assume the elven curved blade is the weapon of choice for this character).
She'll be attacking at +7. With Furious Focus she'll will be power attacking at +7. With Weapon Focus it will be attacking at +8 or power attacking at +7. With Weapon if there is an attack of opportunity power attacking would still be +7 instead of +6 with Furious Focus.
Additionally I'd examine her traits. You can rebuild and respend wealth freely until you play your first game at level 2. Threatening Defender or Armor Expert traits are really good for such a character. Armor Expert allows Mithril Breastplate with basically no penalty while Threatening Defender trait allows free use of Combat Expertise until level 4, and reducing the penalty thereafter. Note you can't get both though.
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RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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Honestly, sometimes I think people don't read past the thread title.
Anyway, I actually advise against Furious Focus, since it means you have two different attack bonuses for standard attacks and AoOs.
You could start building up toward Spring Attack, as I bet a description of the visual would excite any new player. The addition of Whirlwind Attack later on could be fun as well.
I do think that Spring Attack is a bit underrated and a really good feat, but not for the reasons a new player might think. Advancing on an enemy with reach without provoking is good, attacking and then moving from an enemy seems to be it's secondary use rather then it's primary one.
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Well there is a Few options.
Its Pathfinder Society. Play something fun. Improved/greater Dirty Trick would be fun. blinded, dazzled, deafened, entangled, shaken, or sickened are all powerful conditions. If they waste the move action they won't get a full attack on you which helps. You can also Pick up trip as well if you want but making them waste a Move or standard action can be powerful.
I recommend: Dodge/Mobility/Spring Attack/whirlwind attack Line, Improved/greater Dirty Trick, Weapon Focus + Specialization
Furious focus is good an all but I think she would enjoy just +1 to hit as it is simple. The same goes with Weapon specialization.
She will have several things with the above mentioned feats:
She will have better AC while moving about the battlefield with her lighter armor.
She will Have decent damage with power attack+specialization and buying a Belt of str+con. I worry about Her HP with a 12 con.
She will have some Role play options with dirty tricks as well as causing status problems or making them waste action economy.
Weapon focus is a safe pick if you plan on having a signature weapon. I can also think of selecting a defensive option like iron will (less required on elves or dwarves due to the save bonuses, but still handy) or even dodge.
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Weapon focus could be used now instead of furious focus because power attack only does a -1 penalty to your attacks until you hit bab +4. In this case, save furious focus for your level 4 feat.
If you are choosing just from the three feats you have provided, I would do blind fight at level 2 since it does have defensive qualities as well and then take weapon focus at level 3.
Combat reflexes, as mentioned above, is a great feat to take as well with a dex of 18. Since your con is only a 12, toughness is a good feat to take at some point.
One good thing with fighters is that at every 4th lvl, you can replace a feat with another feat. You loose the ability to take the original feat again but if you never use a feat, you can replace it.
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UDS: You only lose the feat from that slot at that time, you can take it again with another feat slot later.
Combat Reflexes, for multiple AoOs, is a good choice for a high Dex PC in any case.
Improved Trip/Disarm/Dirty Trick all have their uses.
Improved Initiative can bve useful, attacking earlier means getting your full Dex to AC qwuicker, and apotentially flat-footed opponent.
Blind Fight is nice...
Weapon Focus is simple, but it is the basis for a bunch of feats later.
Dodge can help with a lower AC, and it helps her touch AC.
Depending on her focus, as a Lore Warden, she might want to look, at third level, at non-Combat feats, maybe Dilettante or Cosmopolitan.
Part of it, of course, is where she wants the character to develop to, as well.
Knowledge with lots of damage? Power Attack, Weapon Specialization, etc.
Local area battlefield control? Improved Trip, Improved Disarm, Imprved Dirty Trick, etc.
Multi-classing into a compatible class? Magus plays well with Lore Warden, IMO.
May I suggest lunge? Only if you team is smart enough to see that fighter's power comes from his equipment and offer to help you with your armor. Otherwise it will lower you AC and it sucks to be a fighter with low dex and low AC. +3 dex and +6 from breastplate will make you have 19AC but lunge will make you lose 2. A fighter with 17 AC would be useless. The chance of beating 17 AC is always higher than hitting the real sorcerer who has mirror image no matter how bad you are at hitting. And you are not rogue who can just run away and stealth. You are a fighter stuck with 17 AC and got no escape. So if your team can't get you a set of full plate, don't take lunge. Unless you are playing with reach weapon of course.
Lunge is a decent feat, but requires a bab of 6.
I am curious as to what was chosen in the end if the original poster is still around.
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Step Up would be a good feat. That would allow her to not let those pesky casters and ranged people from 5-ft stepping away. A new player might not be as adept at positioning prior, and this might help
I will cast defensively....oh nice you have step up...thanks for wasting your feats!
Replace step up and cleave at Level 6 when all casters go defensive casting and Archers are grabbing improved point blank shot.
She decided to go with Dodge, because she was more worried about what the bad guys could do to her, than what she could do to them.
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Dodge is good. I played with a lore fighter last session at the table. They had an a.c. of 29 at 3rd level. He was doing like 10 points of damage when he hit. The DM admitted he had to roll a 19-20 to hit him. Was a good attention grabber. But later I can see not doing damage to cause them to focus someone else.
If she follows the dodge-whirlwind attack line. Follow it up with some damage and she will be doing fine. She can run out there and attack a group grabbing attention that gives the group a few rounds before they decide to pick a real target they can hit.
I still recommend greater dirty tricks. Removing an enemies actions is a great way to teach action economy.
If she is taking intimidate then Dazzling display is another way to boost her up. Demoralizing gives them -2 to hit. In effect it is A.C. for her and debuffing enemies.
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Step Up would be a good feat. That would allow her to not let those pesky casters and ranged people from 5-ft stepping away. A new player might not be as adept at positioning prior, and this might helpI will cast defensively....oh nice you have step up...thanks for wasting your feats!
I once played with a GM that did exactly that when the party fighter got Step-Up-N-Strike (even before the fighter ever performed the manuever in a fight). The GM didn't realize he was meta-gaming.
The fighter player was getting frustrated over it but was hesitant to bring it up.
So, my evocation wizard specifically dropped Flaming Spheres on those foes.
Good times!
Casting defensively when a melee is in your face isn't metagmaing, it's self preservation. The counter to that is to also take Disruptive and Spellbreaker.
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Actually any wizard after level 7 should defensive cast if pressured. That is not meta gaming it is playing an intelligent caster who knows that if someone is on me I have to cast this way. Your DM is right to make them cast defensively. At higher levels enemies become smarter and some fighter feats are to be retrained to match the smarter enemies. Cleave is another feat that is wasted after 6. Don't be mad. Pick a difference strategy.
Well this isn't exactly optimization you're asking for, but simplicity, right?
Weapon focus is always on, and the benefits go to your attack rolls which includes CMB's with that weapon. Sounds good for someone choosing to go lore warden.
Furious Focus I'd stay away from. It's only the first attack, and the penalty is only a -1 now. I feel that using this and not deducting power attack now will hurt her later on when she does have multiple attacks and doesn't do things properly. Also, Weapon focus right now negates this.
Dodge is only good if you're going to focus on pre-reqs, and someone with a two handed weapon, I don't think so, but maybe you want to whirlwind, and hit and run later, and I personally will never waste my time with wasting all those feats. Dodge don't apply when you're FF, so she'll have to account for that not only with her FF AC, but since it counts toward your CMD, you'll have to remember to also deduct that when deducting your dex in that situation too. But as mentioned, it helps your CMD, but you want that CMB buffs, right?!
Cleave can be good here, and I never used cleave in PF, but low level games in PFS tend to have a lot of puny dudes. Don't power attack, and make sure you hit your first target so you can get that additional ATTACK! It'll be fun I think to just crush your enemies, and then get rid of that crap at level 4.
Improved trip seems to honestly be what you want for maximum learning and fun. A lore warden that trips.... YES! Screw making attacks when your CMB destroys your attack roll, and go debuff and help your party kill those things. Drop a dude, and now everyone gets a difference of 4 to hit that AC! Also, when it stands up, everyone gets the AoO while still having that benefit! Just pay attention to how many legs a creature has before making the attempt, otherwise, it's time to take a trip. Oh, and to mention that you won't provoke when making the attacks too is great.
Combat Ref is something to invest in for later on, but for someone with only 5ft reach, and not Greater trip and stuff, it might not come in handy too often. Combat Reflexes is solid, but without that reach, she won't really make too much use out of it now.
I forgot the rest I was about to write, and I need to head out for a PFS session tonight, but I believe the winner should be improved trip. She will not only usually succeed more often than doing other attacks, which I think would satisfy her and put her in the spot light, but she will also be helping the party out too so they can go give the beats to creatures. THE SUSPENSE OF IF YOU TRIPPED IT OR NOT! And when it works, everyone he glad they're going to trip town.
IMPROVED TRIP!
(PS. You can trip as an AoO)
Casting defensively when a melee is in your face isn't metagmaing, it's self preservation. The counter to that is to also take Disruptive and Spellbreaker.GM: "The archer 5-ft steps away and shoots you... oh wait... you have that feat. Never mind, he pulls his sword and swings at you."
This said when the archer never met the fighter and the fighter had yet to use the feat. That is meta-gaming.
Every caster taking a 30% to 50% chance to fail a defensively cast spell when they can take a 5-ft step and (normally) cast it without a chance to fail it... that is also meta-gaming.
After the fighter exhibits the ability, then it would not be meta-gaming.
I disagree because the action sequence would not be 5' step and cast a spell, fighter 5' steps up and attacks with an AOO.
It's caster 5' steps, fighter follows, caster thinks oh crap he moved faster then I expected and is still in my face so I'd better cast defensively. Same with the bow user, 5' step to intend to use the bow but is followed, so bow is dropped and sword is drawn instead.
Especially as a new player, ask her how she feels about the character and playing. For the first character of someone new to these types of games, I feel it is important for the player to notice and enjoy the 'new' things you get.
Is she finding the complexity confusing? I would avoid any of the maneuvers and suggest a static bonus.
Is she finding "I power attack" boring? Then improved disarm, improved trip, or dirty trick can be loads of fun.
She has a high dex, so I would bet she has usually been going early in the combat anyway. So improved initiative may not be a noticeable change.
Has she been failing will saves? If so, she might have found failing saves a rather sucky experience and want to reduce that, so Iron will becomes attractive. If not, the increased defensive capability may not be apparent.
Does she almost never miss a target with the to hit roll? If so, weapon focus or furious focus may feel like nothing new. Yes, I know they will eventually be useful as levels are gained. But how is it perceived right now?
Ah, I see what you are saying and I reverse what I said. Yep, that would metagaming.
Step Up is a good feat all on its own. You could take it and build in other directions as well.
Intimidating Prowess adds Strength to Intimidate checks, and Cornugon Smash and/or Dreadful Carnage make it viable in combat. The DC to render an enemy Shaken is not that high. Once you put the Cruel enhancement on your Weapon, every Shaken enemy you hit is rendered sickened as well. That's some powerful debuffing and you don't give up any actions or attack bonuses to do it.
Plus it gives you something to do out of combat. Be the bad cop to your Bard/Pally/Etc's good cop.
In keeping with the Mobile Elven Warrior image, you could build toward Horizon Walker, take three levels of it to gain Dimension Door as a spell like ability. The Dimensional Agility feat line will allow you to eventually combine it with a full attack. This alleviates a lot of the Fighter's mobility problems, and you can eventually even use it to gain flanking with yourself. You count as your own ally, so the Outflank teamwork feat will work all by yourself.
Right, forgot about that. Skill Focus Intimidate then, or depending on her Int & Cha scores, Additional Traits for Bruising Intellect and something else.
BTW, if the character might go for maneuvers, wouldn´t agile maneuvers help at some point to improve her CMB ?