Create Water
level 3 = 6 galons
get them clerikz
Bump on this.
This just came up in my game and I have the same question. Is there an official ruling or errata yet?
I didn't realize it required an official ruling.
You create a suit of armor made of ice. While cold to the touch, it does not harm the wearer, especially if worn over normal clothing (though it can hasten the effects of exposure in cold environments). It offers the same protection as a breastplate, except it has hardness 0 and 30 hit points. If the intended wearer is immersed in water when you cast this spell, you may form the armor around the wearer (who may be you); otherwise the wearer must don the armor normally. Attacks against the wearer that create heat or fire degrade the armor, reducing its armor bonus by 1 for every 5 points of fire damage the wearer takes; when the armor’s bonus to AC reaches 0, the armor is destroyed and the spell ends. Because the ice is slightly buoyant, the wearer gains a +2 circumstance bonus on Swim checks, except when swimming downward. Druids can wear ice armor without penalty.
The thing is, it simply says it 'offers the same protection as a breastplate'. It could have said it functions as a breastplate, which would have been fewer words and made it clear, but in this case it says it's offering the protection, without any mention of downsides. On this note, I would definitely believe it has no ACP and no ASF.
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Thank's for weighing in, Saethori.
I'm open to either interpretation, truly.
Reading other threads on this question, the slight majority opinion is that it should have the ACP and max dex of a breastplate, but I can see both interpretations. After all, it can be easily destroyed by heat, which helps to mitigate the bonuses.
The ambiguity comes from:
1. It creates a suit of armor which must be donned, rather than a simple armor bonus.
2. The material, 5 gallons of water, weighs 41.7 lbs. A breastplate weighs only 30.
If anything, it should be more encumbering. At the least, there's a strong chance of putting a character into the medium weight encumbrance category (20' speed, +3 max dex, -3 ACP) which is very nearly the breastplate's encumbrance anyway. Spell failure is still an important unanswered question.
So the question is whether the different hardness, HP, and swimming bonus are the only aspects of the spell besides armor bonus, or whether they are the only exceptions to a standard breastplate.
That's why I'm hoping a developer will clarify this somewhere. The effort to save word count leaves ambiguity.
Dot
I think the intended meaning of the spell is to 'craft' a breastplate using water as material.
For all game mechanics I'd use the same as the common breastplate.
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I didn't realize it required an official ruling.
You create a suit of armor made of ice. While cold to the touch, it does not harm the wearer, especially if worn over normal clothing (though it can hasten the effects of exposure in cold environments). It offers the same protection as a breastplate, except it has hardness 0 and 30 hit points. If the intended wearer is immersed in water when you cast this spell, you may form the armor around the wearer (who may be you); otherwise the wearer must don the armor normally. Attacks against the wearer that create heat or fire degrade the armor, reducing its armor bonus by 1 for every 5 points of fire damage the wearer takes; when the armor’s bonus to AC reaches 0, the armor is destroyed and the spell ends. Because the ice is slightly buoyant, the wearer gains a +2 circumstance bonus on Swim checks, except when swimming downward. Druids can wear ice armor without penalty.The thing is, it simply says it 'offers the same protection as a breastplate'. It could have said it functions as a breastplate, which would have been fewer words and made it clear, but in this case it says it's offering the protection, without any mention of downsides. On this note, I would definitely believe it has no ACP and no ASF.
You create a suit of armor made of ice. You materially create it. This armor is, specifically, a breastplate, with associated AC bonus, ASF and ACP. It also count as medium armor for the purposes of proficiency and speed, since you're actually wearing a breastplate.
Druids do not incur in penalty due to metal armors, since breastplates are usually metallic and therefore forbidden. However, a druid who's not proficient in medium armors (at least one archetype swaps that away), still gets the breastplate ACP to hit.
The thing that it doesn't have ASF and ACP is just nonsensical. +6 to AC and no malus whatsoever for a 1st level spell that lasts hours per level? A sort of Empowered Mage Armor! You must really hate martials.
Gray Warden, conversely, you must hate casters.
Now, this is also good for a martial type who for whatever reason has no armor available, or maybe just wants to avoid drowning. Now said martial type will likely have armor penalties mitigated by their class features. Non-armor proficient types will have all the penalties you would expect.
BTW, a breastplate is not a Suit of Armor, but that is a quibble, since it protects as one. The artwork for the spell shows icy greaves and vambraces for the little gnome.
I would say that the Druid takes no penalties, ACP, or whatever. Since the armor is, by definition, not metal, the Druid non-fall is already a given. Druids are going to get more out of this gift from Gozreh, they are going to be more attuned to it, and vice versa, than any non-Druid will ever be.
It can be cast by more than just Druids, and worn by anyone. Level bloodrager 1, cleric/oracle 1, druid 1, hunter 1, warpriest 1 (Gozreh). It's interesting that Rangers don't get it.
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Gray Warden, conversely, you must hate casters.
Now, this is also good for a martial type who for whatever reason has no armor available, or maybe just wants to avoid drowning. Now said martial type will likely have armor penalties mitigated by their class features. Non-armor proficient types will have all the penalties you would expect.
BTW, a breastplate is not a Suit of Armor, but that is a quibble, since it protects as one. The artwork for the spell shows icy greaves and vambraces for the little gnome.
I would say that the Druid takes no penalties, ACP, or whatever. Since the armor is, by definition, not metal, the Druid non-fall is already a given. Druids are going to get more out of this gift from Gozreh, they are going to be more attuned to it, and vice versa, than any non-Druid will ever be.
It can be cast by more than just Druids, and worn by anyone. Level bloodrager 1, cleric/oracle 1, druid 1, hunter 1, warpriest 1 (Gozreh). It's interesting that Rangers don't get it.
I strongly disagree.
The texts says you create a specific suit of armor. Breastplate, despite any linguistic argument you might use, IS a suit of armor in game terms. The only differences with the non-magic, metal breastplate are those listed: lower hardness, lower hp, it might melt and gives a bonus to swim in some circumstances.
No mention to ASF, therefore it's the same as a breastplate.
No mention to ACP, therefore it's the same as a breastplate.
No mention to proficiency and whatsoever, I think you know where I'm going.
Druids can wear Ice Armor without penalty.
I Think you know...
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Creates a suit of armor that offers the same protection as breastplate, that's all the spell says and all the spell does. It doesn't create a breastplate, just armor that offers the same protection (AC bonus, or maybe DR with the Armor as DR rules).
No ACP, no ASF.
well... if there is no ACP, why does it point out that "Druids can wear Ice Armor without penalty."? wouldn't that imply that NON-Druids can wear it WITH penalty?
but then, would the ACP (the "P" stands for Penalty right?) only apply to NON-Druids?
and what about a druid that DOESN'T have Medium Armor Prof.? (Like me, a Feyspeaker druid). do I suffer Penalties for wearing it?
yeap, time to hit the FAQ button and move on.
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It offers the same protection as a breastplate, except it has hardness 0 and 30 hit points.
So the big difference in its stats is different hardness and hit points. I'm going to assume all other stats of the armor remain the same.
Druids can wear ice armor without penalty.
I'm pretty sure this refers to the penalty druids get if they would wear a metal breastplate.
It's not a bad spell; it can easily form armor around an animal companion for example, or overcome "we don't have gear" shenanigan scenarios. Breastplate is also fairly expensive for a level 1 character, while Create Water isn't.
> it can easily form armor around an animal companion for example,
That raises more questions, can it form "Armor for Unusual Creatures" (e.g. barding) does it take less than 5 gallons to make armor for a tiny creature or more than 5 gallons to make armor for a large or huge creature? If not does the armor weigh 40 lbs in all cases? (good luck moving tiny or diminutive creature!)
Since there is no save and you can form it around a creature that is immersed in water can it be used to ruin an arcane caster's day with ASF and ACP? And what counts as immersed (is subject to the drench cantrip enough or do you need to catch them in an Aqueous Orb spell?)
If it creates "armor" with "the same protection as a breastplate" can it be any +6 armor (Four-mirror armor, lamellar steel, mountain pattern armor, chainmail or breastplate)?
If I cast spiked armor on it (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/s/spiked-armor/) does it grow tiny iron spikes or tiny ice spikes?
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> it can easily form armor around an animal companion for example,
That raises more questions, can it form "Armor for Unusual Creatures" (e.g. barding)
Sure, it has no limit on what creatures can be affected. Let's just assume it only works on creatures that can wear armor, i.e. not snakes. If the target can wear armor, this can nicely form-fit itself to it.
does it take less than 5 gallons to make armor for a tiny creature or more than 5 gallons to make armor for a large or huge creature? If not does the armor weigh 40 lbs in all cases? (good luck moving tiny or diminutive creature!)
Technically the 5 gallons of water are a focus component. The spell doesn't say it's those gallons used to make the armor, or even if it does that it uses all of them. Being a focus component, they're not consumed.
Since it's Transmutation, not Conjuration, the author probably meant to transform those 5 gallons into armor. However, it's magic, not physics; there is no guarantee that mass is conserved. Enlarge Person is the classic example of a transmutation spell increasing someone's weight.
So since the only mechanical difference of the armor is that it's got different HP and Hardness, I'm going with it weighing the same as a regular breastplate.
Since there is no save and you can form it around a creature that is immersed in water can it be used to ruin an arcane caster's day with ASF and ACP? And what counts as immersed (is subject to the drench cantrip enough or do you need to catch them in an Aqueous Orb spell?)
It has a casting time of 1 minute and a range of 0ft. If you can control a wizard for that long, who cares?
If it creates "armor" with "the same protection as a breastplate" can it be any +6 armor (Four-mirror armor, lamellar steel, mountain pattern armor, chainmail or breastplate)?
Are any of those things breastplate? No.
If I cast spiked armor on it (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/s/spiked-armor/) does it grow tiny iron spikes or tiny ice spikes?
Iron spikes. That's what the Spiked Armor spell says.
But that's nothing new, there's no rule stopping you from buying bone armor with iron armor spikes.